(October 27, 2013 at 12:34 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:(October 22, 2013 at 2:45 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: 1. John is baptizing. Andrew is an early follower. Both behold the Lamb of God.
2. Andrew wants to tell his brother who earns his living as a professional fishing business about Jesus. Leaves John the Baptist. Jn 1:40
3. Time passes. Andrew and Peter do fishing stuff etc etc. They don't IMMEDIATELY drop everything and run off to find Jesus.
4. John the Baptist is arrested. Lk 3:19
5. Jesus calls Peter to become a disciple Mk 1:16 Mt 4:18
My goodness! Don't hurt yourself with all those contortions.
Do you find this excessively complex?
I think you are the one doing the contortion of scripture.
(October 27, 2013 at 12:34 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: …Your timeline should also include an earlier baptism by JtB and a wilderness adventure before the meeting with JtB in the Gospel of John.
No, one baptism is enough.
(October 27, 2013 at 12:34 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: …You did inspire me to re-read the first few chapters of the Gospel of John. You know what I discovered? It wasn't just the John 1:32 that is written in past tense (your justification for assuming there was an earlier baptism prior to the events related in the first chapter of John's Gospel). It's the whole Gospel that's written in past tense. Ergo, there's nothing special about John 1:32 being in past tense.
No, the Gospel of John is NOT entirely written with characters testifying what they themselves had done (past tense.)
John 1:32 is. Yep. Sure.
Eg…here is an account of what John did yesterday. John told people (testified) that he had already seen something ‘xyz’ which happened earlier last week/last fortnight/ last month.
The account is being told, (of a past event,) where of a person is (present tense) telling others about what he had (past tense) done earlier.
But the characters in John 3:5, for example, aren’t talking about past events that had already happened to them. It’s different to John 1:3.
In John 1:3 we read of a character giving present tense testimony about their past action.
But in John 3 we read of a character simply talking to someone else in the present moment.
In fact John 3 verses 5 to 12 shows the distinction clearly. There is a narrative transition from an immediate conversation being recorded, (Jesus and Nicodemus are talking - present tense) into a narrative of Jesus speaking about something He had done in the past.
John 3:3 “Verily I tell you…” (present tense)
John 3:12 “I have spoken to you about….” (past tense)
(October 27, 2013 at 12:34 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: …Now you will still insist that there was an earlier baptism because you want to make all the Gospel accounts consistent. I, on the other hand, am not only reading what's there but also with the knowledge of the history of the early Christian movement.
No, I don’t insist. The text insists. I am sticking to the text. You are the one attempting to import stuff with your Jesus myther eisegesis and selective extra-biblical stuff.