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The Jesus Itinerary
RE: The Jesus Itinerary
(October 28, 2013 at 2:34 am)Lion IRC Wrote: Do you find this excessively complex?
I think you are the one doing the contortion of scripture.
As I keep trying to explain to the apologists, skepticism is not an agenda.

Let's put the "no, you!" argument to rest right now. You are a Christian, yes? This means you have faith, yes? This means when you read the Bible, you have a preconception that must be satisfied, specifically, your faith.

The psychology of cognitive dissonance comes into play here. When you find a contradiction, you psychologically will be drawn to finding some rationalization, no matter how complex, instead of reading what's there.

William Lane Craig, a famous apologist, once blurted out that his belief in Christianity (mumbo jumbo about revealed truth from the Holy Spirit) comes first and any evidence comes second. No evidence can convince him that Christianity isn't true. He doesn't pursue the evidence wherever it leads but selectively looks for reasons to justify the beliefs he already has.





This is the essence of apologetics. It is not about trying to find what is true or not. It is about finding reasons to validate the conclusions you have already reached.

Compare this with the "agenda" of skepticism. I read what's there. I go where the evidence leads me. I also compare and contrast what I read in the Bible with what we know of the history of the time. You can accuse me of having preconceptions (I do not) but you can't deny that I lack any faith which must be defended without evidence and against all evidence.

[Image: CA230_1Trever.gif]

Quote:No, one baptism is enough.
But not just one meeting, at least not according to what you've proposed.

1. Baptism by JtB according to the Synoptics.
2. 40 days in the wilderness according to the Synoptics.
3. Jesus has a second meeting with JtB in John's Gospel, "behold the lamb of God".
etc.

Quote:No, the Gospel of John is NOT entirely written with characters testifying what they themselves had done (past tense.)
But plenty of it is and there's nothing special about chapter 1 being in the past tense.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
...      -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
...       -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
Reply



Messages In This Thread
The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 12, 2013 at 11:51 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Beta Ray Bill - October 13, 2013 at 12:32 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 13, 2013 at 12:57 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Jackalope - October 13, 2013 at 1:01 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 13, 2013 at 1:09 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 13, 2013 at 4:09 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 10:41 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cinjin - October 15, 2013 at 3:51 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Doubting Thomas - October 13, 2013 at 11:18 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 12:11 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 13, 2013 at 12:49 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 1:42 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 13, 2013 at 1:58 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 2:55 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 13, 2013 at 3:20 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 4:21 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 13, 2013 at 4:47 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 5:23 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 13, 2013 at 5:40 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 8:14 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 8:12 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 8:19 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 8:33 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 8:45 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 9:05 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 10:08 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 10:14 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 10:54 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 11:38 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 12:41 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 12:59 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 1:55 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 2:17 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 2:22 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 14, 2013 at 3:37 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 3:58 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 4:44 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 15, 2013 at 3:05 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 15, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 13, 2013 at 1:12 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 13, 2013 at 1:34 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 13, 2013 at 1:54 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Drich - October 13, 2013 at 3:26 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 4:24 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Drich - October 14, 2013 at 9:22 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 10:10 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Drich - October 14, 2013 at 10:22 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 11:01 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Drich - October 14, 2013 at 11:15 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 15, 2013 at 8:49 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 15, 2013 at 11:07 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Drich - October 15, 2013 at 12:04 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Captain Colostomy - October 14, 2013 at 11:27 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Tonus - October 13, 2013 at 9:59 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 13, 2013 at 4:28 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 13, 2013 at 8:27 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 13, 2013 at 8:59 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 13, 2013 at 9:09 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 14, 2013 at 7:16 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 8:14 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 14, 2013 at 8:46 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 14, 2013 at 9:04 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 14, 2013 at 11:56 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by ThomM - October 14, 2013 at 1:11 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 14, 2013 at 3:01 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 14, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 14, 2013 at 4:00 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - October 14, 2013 at 11:25 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 15, 2013 at 1:54 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 15, 2013 at 9:00 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 15, 2013 at 12:09 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 15, 2013 at 4:03 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 15, 2013 at 4:37 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 15, 2013 at 4:55 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 15, 2013 at 5:04 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 15, 2013 at 10:37 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 16, 2013 at 12:47 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cinjin - October 16, 2013 at 12:55 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 6:08 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 16, 2013 at 12:20 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 12:51 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 16, 2013 at 11:07 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 7:47 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 16, 2013 at 8:59 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 9:16 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 15, 2013 at 3:58 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 15, 2013 at 2:45 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 15, 2013 at 4:52 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 15, 2013 at 7:34 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 15, 2013 at 5:20 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 15, 2013 at 8:10 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 15, 2013 at 10:38 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 16, 2013 at 12:11 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cinjin - October 16, 2013 at 12:16 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 16, 2013 at 11:15 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cinjin - October 15, 2013 at 11:55 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 16, 2013 at 12:43 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 16, 2013 at 12:50 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 16, 2013 at 9:21 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cyberman - October 16, 2013 at 11:41 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 16, 2013 at 12:04 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cyberman - October 16, 2013 at 12:23 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 16, 2013 at 12:58 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 16, 2013 at 3:18 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 16, 2013 at 4:17 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 16, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 6:49 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 16, 2013 at 7:18 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 7:25 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 8:12 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 10:35 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 10:42 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 11:11 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 11:19 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 11:50 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 12:34 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 12:39 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 17, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by max-greece - October 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Bob Kelso - October 16, 2013 at 4:51 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 16, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Tonus - October 16, 2013 at 7:29 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 7:31 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cinjin - October 16, 2013 at 7:39 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 16, 2013 at 7:44 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cyberman - October 16, 2013 at 11:11 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 7:54 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cyberman - October 16, 2013 at 11:22 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 17, 2013 at 12:17 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cyberman - October 17, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 3:25 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 16, 2013 at 11:31 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 12:44 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 12:48 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 12:53 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 1:14 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 1:23 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 3:29 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 4:19 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 17, 2013 at 5:02 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 5:06 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 18, 2013 at 8:02 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 18, 2013 at 8:12 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 17, 2013 at 2:05 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cyberman - October 17, 2013 at 3:29 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 17, 2013 at 10:44 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 17, 2013 at 11:36 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 18, 2013 at 4:16 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 18, 2013 at 10:27 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Tonus - October 19, 2013 at 9:46 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 19, 2013 at 11:53 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 19, 2013 at 8:01 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 22, 2013 at 2:45 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 27, 2013 at 12:34 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 28, 2013 at 3:50 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 29, 2013 at 9:39 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 30, 2013 at 12:19 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 30, 2013 at 8:50 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 30, 2013 at 12:15 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Captain Colostomy - October 31, 2013 at 2:47 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - November 1, 2013 at 6:44 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 17, 2013 at 7:13 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 17, 2013 at 11:45 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 18, 2013 at 8:08 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 18, 2013 at 8:43 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 18, 2013 at 9:27 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 18, 2013 at 9:41 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 18, 2013 at 1:01 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 19, 2013 at 7:08 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 18, 2013 at 12:51 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 18, 2013 at 1:06 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 18, 2013 at 10:11 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 19, 2013 at 9:25 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 22, 2013 at 12:10 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Godschild - October 22, 2013 at 10:05 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 25, 2013 at 3:22 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 25, 2013 at 3:42 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by John V - October 26, 2013 at 8:07 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 26, 2013 at 11:43 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 25, 2013 at 4:02 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 25, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 27, 2013 at 12:12 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 27, 2013 at 12:36 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 27, 2013 at 1:07 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 27, 2013 at 1:34 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Cyberman - October 27, 2013 at 9:21 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 28, 2013 at 2:34 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 29, 2013 at 9:21 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 30, 2013 at 3:36 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 30, 2013 at 7:54 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 28, 2013 at 1:03 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 28, 2013 at 8:25 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 29, 2013 at 8:59 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 30, 2013 at 1:39 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 30, 2013 at 11:48 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 31, 2013 at 1:49 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 31, 2013 at 7:56 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 31, 2013 at 7:35 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 31, 2013 at 8:06 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 31, 2013 at 8:26 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 31, 2013 at 9:07 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - October 31, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 31, 2013 at 11:00 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Lion IRC - November 1, 2013 at 12:17 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - November 3, 2013 at 1:03 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 31, 2013 at 12:11 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 31, 2013 at 8:45 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - October 31, 2013 at 10:21 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by DeistPaladin - October 31, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - November 1, 2013 at 12:14 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - November 3, 2013 at 1:37 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Einharjar - November 3, 2013 at 2:52 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Minimalist - November 3, 2013 at 2:59 am
RE: The Jesus Itinerary - by Einharjar - November 3, 2013 at 4:15 am

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