RE: Proving God Existence
October 30, 2013 at 4:38 am
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2013 at 4:46 am by Muslim Scholar.)
(October 30, 2013 at 2:56 am)paulpablo Wrote: *why CAN'T something come from nothing.Because the only premises of the proof is the "Disjoint", i.e. Mutually exclusive attributes cannot happen together (by definition)
For example if you define the word "Square" as a shape with 4 equal lines connected by 90 degree angels
then a square with non-equal sides cannot exist (Even God cannot create that)
Quote:*how CAN there be a being which thinks without a brain.This is science or observations; we observe things in the universe; other things can exist which violates our observations there is no problem with that.
Quote:*how CAN there be a being which exists outside of physical existence.I said outside the Universe not Existence
I don't know what do you mean by physical existence!
Quote:*how CAN there be a being which makes decisions outside of time.I meant time as defined by the proof, not the common understanding of time
Quote:*how CAN there be a being which made a decision to make the universe outside of time then made time and the universe and decicided to step into the thing it created to turn sticks into snakes and create floods?I don't know, nor anybody can know
Logic dictates that it exist and also dictates that it is beyond our knowldge
Quote:I actually think you don't have a clue about how any of these things can happen and you can't explain them with LOGIC or SCIENCEI didn't even say God, I proved by logic attributes for a creator, to name it God or not this a matter of choice.
what you ARE doing is saying "Don't know how it happened so therefore GOD"
(October 29, 2013 at 5:24 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote:Yes, God existed in a timeless state(October 29, 2013 at 4:36 pm)Muslim Scholar Wrote: I defined time as the relation between two eventsBut that is precisely my point. Using your definition of time, god would have to exist in timeless state; an unchanging, perpetual "now". To quote Red Dwarf:
When God created the universe there were no other events so there is no relation/time that is why they call it Singularity
The proof can be used on God, a first event for God existed as well
Quote:" So although you exist, you no longer exist in time, and for you time itself does not exist. You see, although you're still a mass, you are no longer an event in space-time, you are a non-event mass with a quantum probability of zero."I don't get your point here!
Quote:I agree this proof doesn't prove God, but it proves the existence of X or G as a creator and proves some mandatory attributes for that X;Quote:Refuting a proof doesn't go like this, you need either to show that my premises is false or a step doesn't lead to the next.Well ok, equating 'G' with a creator, let alone god, is an assertion, not a logical step. The 'first cause' need not be an entity and even if it were, it need not be conscious. The cause could just as easily be an inherent property.
proving God himself is another issue.
Quote:Sorry but logic is much stronger than science!(October 29, 2013 at 4:36 pm)Muslim Scholar Wrote: Yes, I even proved that not just said it.Unfortunely, you can get something from nothing. It happens everywhere, all the time. Unlike your "logical proofs", this has been proven to be true
You need to disprove that by Logic
or show by no doubt that something can come from nothing.