(October 30, 2013 at 4:38 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote: The proof can be used on God, a first event for God existed as wellReally? It's not very often you see a theist say that!!!
If the creator/god had a first cause, what was it? And what caused it? We have the problem of infinite regress.
(October 30, 2013 at 4:38 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote:Essentially, it just means what I stated prior to that quote. It means that in a timeless state, there is no time in which you can act. It is impossible to change from state A to state B as there is no time in which that change can happen. In a timeless state, you are frozen in a static instant, unable to perform thought or deed.(October 29, 2013 at 5:24 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: " So although you exist, you no longer exist in time, and for you time itself does not exist. You see, although you're still a mass, you are no longer an event in space-time, you are a non-event mass with a quantum probability of zero."I don't get your point here!
Quote:I agree this proof doesn't prove God, but it proves the existence of X or G as a creator and proves some mandatory attributes for that X;But the only attribute you listed in part III that is proven by this is the first: G is the creator/instigator of the universe. All other attributes are conjecture and cannot be logically deduced from the previous arguments alone.
proving God himself is another issue.
(October 30, 2013 at 4:38 am)Muslim Scholar Wrote:With logic? Ok.Quote:Unfortunely, you can get something from nothing. It happens everywhere, all the time. Unlike your "logical proofs", this has been proven to be trueSorry but logic is much stronger than science!
You need to disprove that by Logic
or show by no doubt that something can come from nothing.
You have already stated that the creator/instigator must also have had a first cause. Well what caused the cause? As I said, it leads you to infinite regress. Since your arguments have already stated that is impossible to exist in perpetuity, there cannot always have been a "something". By your own arguments, at some point in the distant past, there must have been a moment in which there truly was absolute nothing.