(October 29, 2013 at 1:25 pm)Optimistic Mysanthrope Wrote: If god exists outside of time, then there is no time at which it could have created the universe.
Augustine was the first Christine theologian to write about God and time in any sort of depth. (confessions - Book 11). He concluded that God outside of time meant that creation was eternal, without start or end.
Which leads to all sorts of peculiar paradoxes Augustine did not forsee. If all is as it is and always has been, no change was ever possible, including God's acts, in such a Universe, God has no free will, neither can we have free will. I call this the "Flies in Amber" scenario. We are all trapped in an unchanging now forever like a fly trapped in amber
And as things are as they always have been and will never change, its hard to see how we can state God caused it to be that way,there is no before to allow cause of all to come about.
To abandon this out of time problem with its bizarre paradoxes, theism has to admit time exists and is outside God's control, time limits God, implying Einsteinian relativity limits God. Time, mass dimensionality and speed are all part of the nature of reality in an inter-related manner. Time is not isolated from everything else
This establishes naturalism is primary, preceding God and out of God's control.
A nice little problem for theism.
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Cheerful Charlie
If I saw a man beating a tied up dog, I couldn't prove it was wrong, but I'd know it was wrong.
- Attributed to Mark Twain
If I saw a man beating a tied up dog, I couldn't prove it was wrong, but I'd know it was wrong.
- Attributed to Mark Twain