The Jesus Itinerary

[DeistPaladin]

No, one has to assume that DeistPaladin knows something more about John the Baptist than the Mandeans or Jesus or the early Christians. Do you?

What are you talking about? You're not making any sense at all.

Are you seriously trying to claim that it makes perfect sense that the followers of John the Baptist would continue to revere him as the messiah even though he kept telling them not to?

Here are the things the Bible claims JtB had to say about himself:

Mark 1:7-8 There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Matt 3:11-14 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Luke 3:15-17 And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not;
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

John 1:15-27 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
[...]
And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.
And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
[...]
He said,I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
[...]
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

Now, having read these verses, explain to me why there would be any Mandeans at all, never mind a large religious movement following this man that would be rivals to the early Christians and would continue to this day?

To put this in perspective, the Koran claims that Jesus said to Allah that he never told anyone he was the Son of God, that he was the forerunner of Muhammad and preached a proto-Islamic message. I don't believe the Koran. I don't even believe such a scenario is possible. Do you know why? Because Christianity wouldn't exist if that were true.

People don't follow a religious leader who tells them not to follow him, except in the Life of Brian (which is part of what made that movie so funny). If the religious leader really does point to someone else, his followers would have joined with the followers of that other person.





You and I, I'm guessing, would apply the same skepticism to the Koran. The difference is you suspend that kind of skepticism when it comes to the Bible.

Asking me "whats your point" instead of answering the point itself sounds like a stalling tactic.

Or maybe it's because your arguments are pointless.