(October 30, 2013 at 8:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:(October 28, 2013 at 8:51 pm)apophenia Wrote: …it is safe to say that the proposition that the mind is a productof the brain is a scientific fact…Your bias shows. From a scientifically neutral position, the brain could just as easily mediate of facilitate mind. Saying that mind is a product of the brain comes from your philosophical interpretation of the data.
This is simply wrong. You do not know what the foundation of my conclusions was, and for you to claim that you know them and know them to be thus is simply a callous lie on your part, told less to expose the truth than to create foundations for your counter-argument out of the nothingness of bare assertion. These claims here came straight out of your ass, and, if for some reason you should find a legitimate piece of me there, please call a doctor as some dementia has no doubt let me wander into your strange bed chamber. Moreover, your statements about what the brain 'could show' and what is 'scientifically neutral' reveal yourself to be a scientific ignoramus with no sufficient view upon the reality of the science and thus of necessity no means but for you to opine from deep within the cloistered view of your thinly veiled well of religious bias.
Furthermore, you were warned up front that my exposition would be incomplete, and you consciously took it upon yourself to exploit one of those gaps to stuff this bullshit about my reasoning from philosophical bias rather than science inside, with a view to how it would serve your counter-argument. Not only does this result in a straw man of no value, it uncovers a scoundrel, who, when warned of a necessary weakness in an exposition will not honor that admission with charity and due deference, but seek instead to exploit it for his own gain. Very nice, Chad.
(October 30, 2013 at 8:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:(October 28, 2013 at 8:51 pm)apophenia Wrote: …The key point is that dualism itself doesn't actually explain anything either; it's just kicking the can down the road. "A seperate substance is responsible for consciousness." "Well, how does that second substance give rise to consciousness?" "I dunno; it just does." … How does this other substance give rise to mind, qualia, and consciousness?)This is not a fair criticism, though often repeated. You never ask what is it about matter that allows it to give rise to physical properties, do you?
This is simply a lie. I made considerable effort to point out that neither monistic science nor monistic philosophy had found these others and that it was imperative that they keep working until they find them. For you to imply that I only faulted dualism for this is the grossest of misrepresentation, and given how explicitly I pointed out that this was not the case, I can only conclude this was an intentional, maliciously, self-consciously chosen lie.
Moreover, even if true, it would be little more than a fallacious tu quoque, an attempt to point your finger at a lack in the other to justify excusing a lack in your own. Whether monism answers these questions or not bears no relevance to whether or not dualism in fact bears these burdens, and in fact, it does. So first you lie about what you just read, in order to set up a finger pointing tu quoque, in order to attempt to relieve your position of the burden which it not only has, and has not fulfilled, but which it assumed quite willingly.
Do you wonder why I think so poorly of you?