(October 31, 2013 at 8:26 pm)Lion IRC Wrote: Well what is this then?
Oh dear.
OK, nice and really slow, then.
A. The Bible says John the Baptist groveled before Jesus, told everyone to follow Jesus, told everyone how inferior he was to Jesus, told everyone he wasn't fit to unloose Jesus' sandals, etc.
B. The followers of John the Baptist were rivals of the early Christians.
So, if "A" above is an accurate account of the ministry of John the Baptist, how could "B" also be true? There are two possibilities:
1. The followers of John the Baptist stubbornly refused to listen to the very man they revered.
2. The Gospel accounts are a bit of religious propaganda used to incorporate the icons of a rival religion in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY the Muslims would later do to Jesus. Also, exactly the same way Christianity incorporated the icons and practices of rival religions throughout its history (see Christmas and Easter).
To underscore this point: do you believe the Koran when it says that Jesus said to Allah (paraphrasing slightly because I don't remember the exact quote): "I never told them I was your son. I don't know where they got that crazy idea. I told them I was a forerunner of your greatest prophet, Muhammad. I don't know why they're worshiping me now."
I'm guessing you'll answer "no".
Me neither.
Because Christianity wouldn't exist if that were true.
I apply the EXACT SAME SKEPTICISM to the Koran as I do to the Bible. The difference between us is that you suspend critical thinking with your favorite religion. I do not.
Quote:Surely the Mandaeans were mistaken in their beliefs about John the Baptist precisely because they WERENT hearing his message fully/properly. They didnt need to ''refuse'' to listen to John in order to reach a mistaken conclusion about Jesus. Tons of Jews didnt initially understand what was going on.*Facepalm*
OK, I think we may be at the point of needing to agree to disagree. You believe that the followers of John the Baptist somehow missed the CORE MESSAGE of his ministry and got confused and revered him instead of Jesus.
I would maintain this is about as likely as the followers of Jesus, assuming he had a ministry teaching anything like what is described in the Gospels, deciding to worship Jupiter and Mars because they didn't quite hear his message properly and didn't understand what was going on.
Quote:Thats it? Gainsaying?I don't think your wildly unlikely scenario requires anything more. See above if you really need to.
A one word response?
Sheesh!
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
