(November 4, 2013 at 7:48 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Nice try. First of all, I never said God is impossible. In fact, I even gave an example in which I thought you might make a reasonable case for God's existence. I said your definition of God can't logically be true, because it violates the meaning of the words "think" and "create."
when I said God, I didn't mean just any God but the specific one being discussed which would exist timelessly. your challenges are specifically what I was addressing in regards to that and your challenges imply God (the one being discussed) is logically impossible.
Quote:I know about thinking, because I can experience it: ideas fade in and out, mostly not of my own volition. I'm a witness to a dynamic virtual space where those ideas play off each other. Now, you say God is timeless. That means he does not have ideas fading in and out. He does not have a dynamic virtual space where his ideas play off each other, because change means time. He therefore does not think. But, you claim, God's thinking is very different than our thinking. No, it's not. It can't be. Because if it doesn't involve a flow of changing ideas (change requiring time, remember), it's not properly called thinking. It's something else.that is merely your personal experience of how thinking works, not the actual definition. according to Merriam-Webster, we have three definitions.
Merriam-Webster Wrote:1. to believe that something is true, that a particular situation exists, that something will happen, etc.out of these, number 3 is most applicable. the basic requirements for God to think is to have thoughts in his mind which doesn't entail the changing of said thoughts. the only aspects of thought God cannot possess are the concepts of pondering, contemplating, or remembering. God cannot possess these because he has all knowledge and to do any of these would require new unknown information.
2. to have an opinion about someone or something
3. to form or have (a particular thought) in your mind
Quote:Now, if you want to argue that God is, by definition, the embodiment of all necessary facts, then we can talk about that.you should have known from the start God is particularly defined by all monotheistic religions as an omniscient being so don't try and act like it's anything new. the terms I would more accurately use to describe him, however, would be an un-embodied mind that possesses knowledge of all truths among other attributes.
and BTW, you've also skipped over the explanation of how a timeless God can create. just letting you know.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
-Galileo