What is a god?

[LukeMC]

I drew a comparison between the laws and purpose which was silly really. Purpose is more an abstract thing, but nevertheless as real as the laws. I have a purpose to get up in the morning because I have things to look forward to (opening my pressies), giving my partner a big kiss. Looking after my baby grandson maybe). We fill our lives with purpose. We create purposes.

Then we give ourselves purpose. The magic matter plays no role in this? Agree?

We need to be motivated to do anything: hunger pains remind us to eat (not that I need reminding). Sex is very enjoyable, loving someone makes you feel warm, safe, contented etc so purpose is a natural part of life.

These sorts of things were evolved, I'm not disputing their existence- they are necessary for life.

Without it we would not have direction, or boundaries maybe?? All I know is, we all seem to want purpose in our lives. We would rather do a job that has meaning, instead of a 9-5 mind numbing factory type job. So life is 'purpose' maybe. I would say 'purpose' is necessary to life.

In which case, no magic matter required for this part.

The purpose of life, I think is to be part of and experience the universe:consciousness, loving, reproducing, working.

I will agree with the reproducing, but beyond that, everything else is purpose which we impose. They just make the experience much nicer for us, but theyre aren't necessary. Plants don't have social lives (as far as I'm aware), their only purpose in life is to reproduce successfully. We are the same, except we give ourselves extra "purposes" to keep us going.

We are all 'sparks of a fire-work display'. You need all the sparks to see the overall effects of the display. We all intereact with each other and hopefully will make some amazing displays of our own.... Maybe we could sum it up as CONTRIBUTION. OUr purpose is to contribute to the universe.

We could impose that on ourselves, yes. And I really quite like this. However, this has little to do with the magic matter.

We need to know both right and wrong in order to appreciate why 'wrong' is wrong. If I leave Christianity out of it and just consider this force or being, then all these things: choice, right, wrong are an integral part of the universe. All possibilities exist. Variations of doing things exist. We are not born with all the facts. We have to learn and we make many mistakes.

Terrorist blows up building. People die. The good people cannot learn because they are dead. The rest of us can learn. Those killed were basically a sacrifice for our benefit? What happens to those poor innocent people? They didn't choose to die painfully.

There is no afterlife whre we go on living after we die. When we die that's it. The claim of Christianity is that Jesus has the power to bring you back to life in a new form that is incorruptible, no longer prone to decay but is still 'you'. It also claims that people will be punished for wrong doing. (If we do something wrong in our society, society will punish us. ) Jesus' corrective punishment will not involve sadistic torture. In what way is that corrective? Rather, through love, people will learn the 'truth' and come to terms with the choices of right and wrong. (I'm looking into a branch of Christianity that believes everyone will be forgiven, although still punished, so no one will be lost). If I'd never heard of Jesus and I'm just considering this force or being, I would probably conclude that when we die we become part of the universe. Our bodies rot down etc. I would have no cause to think I'd live again.

First you say that there is no afterlife. Next you talk about Jesus working his magic after we die. What is the point in this? We won't come back, we'll not materialise in any way, we won't continue to exist in any state or form (according to what you've said). So Jesus' cleansing is a waste of time?
Lets imagine I don't know Jesus. Who is he? Why is he so special and who gave him these magical powers?

Bad only comes into existence by actions. It isn't some 'force' of itself. In my life and my own experience I strive to lead a good life and not let 'evil' get the better of me. By that I mean I try to turn the other cheek. I try to not be selfish.

You get shot and are now dead. You cannot learn, you cannot grow. You are now nothing more than a human sacrifice for the sake of other humans? Why you? You didn't choose this path. An innocent life taken in an instant. I'm struggling with this.

The 'force' allows the universe to evolve and adapt, and for us to learn. You may call that unbenevolent. The fact that pain and suffering exist does throw a big spanner in the works, I admit.

It seems to me that by asserting that this magical creator cares about you, you are appealing to your own emotions, not to reason. From everything we've discussed so far, this matter has no sense of benevolence. And I don't think you any longer have a reason to believe otherwise.

The potential for evil exists and must be a necessary part of the equation.

This looks to me a lot like:
Evil exists. Why?
It exists therefore it must be necessary for it to exist. The creator must have a reson for it.

Instead of:
Evil exists. Why?
Because there is no morally superior being to say otherwise. Evil is down to us. We cannot throw the blame elsewhere.

I dislike how theists believe that evil is a necessary part of life. Evil is only necessary if the supernatural being responsible for everything is not benevolent. If it were really good, it wouldn't torture its creations until they die and then forget about them. You say that evil is necessary for us to learn. Why should it be? Why did it take a Holocaust for us to unite against cruelty? Why weren't we already against cruelty before it came about? Pointless, sadistic, meaningless sacrifice. If good people have to die for us to learn, I question the god-figure's benevolence to the fullest. You need to drop the benevolence claim.

Your turn