Scientific prayer?

[Puck]

That's what it is, not what it is intended to be nor what it is sold as. Prayer is attempted communication with a deity plain and simple, the reality of the situation is mundane of course, but that does not mean all similar mundane affirmations are prayer, they have entirely different goals, regardless of the actual effect.

No, not plain and simple. That is the traditional understanding of it because the true psychological process that is taking place has been traditionally misunderstood. You know, I could pray to a tree outside or to myself, as Shell suggested above, and still achieve the same desired results. How is it not, then, a clear psychological process as opposed to a communication with a diety? The point is that dieties do not exist, so, in the absence of said dieties, the psychological process of prayer does exist regardless of where it is directed.

Main Entry: 1prayer
Pronunciation: \ˈprer\
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French priere, praiere, preiere, from Medieval Latin precaria, from Latin, feminine of precarius obtained by entreaty, from prec-, prex
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : an address (as a petition) to God or a god in word or thought <said a prayer for the success of the voyage> (2) : a set order of words used in praying b : an earnest request or wish
2 : the act or practice of praying to God or a god <kneeling in prayer>
3 : a religious service consisting chiefly of prayers —often used in plural
4 : something prayed for
5 : a slight chance <haven't got a prayer>

Please take note of definition number four. In my mind, that should be the only definition as the preceding ones are based in a misperceived myth.

A car that does not work is still a failed car, even though it now performs the function of a seat. You do not say that because car does not perform desired function it was never intended to be a car and was in fact always a mislabelled seat.

This is a fallible analogy. My contention is that if the car was always a seat and not really a car, it is still a seat even though primitive brains thought is was a car.

The result is the same but the intention is not.

The result is the same and the intention is the same. What is the fundamental intention with prayer? The attainment of something, right? Come on, christians don't pray just to talk to god. There is always a desired result, the hoped for attainment of something.

And you keep ignoring the intention. If I attempt to murder someone by shooting them but miss, the result is the same as if I had never attempted to murder them, but the intention still separates the two.

Another fallible analogy. It is not analogous to what we are talking about here. We are not talking about praying or not praying. We are talking praying with the understanding of what is happening psychologically when we do, thereby, making it a scientific process.

Meditation does not have the intention of communication and subsequent aid involving a deity.

I have addressed this concept in my above replies, but I'll summarize. Praying to simply communicate with a diety is a farce. That definition of prayer is based in myth. The true intention of any kind of prayer is the attainment of something, the same as positive affirmation and meditation. The point is that they all employ the same psychological process and to label them separately is a fallacy.