Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[bennyboy]

All this is fine. It's obvious that people have a high level of motivation to eat meat, and that this motivation varies among individuals. In some circles, for example artsy or "liberal" groups, meat-eating could serve as a social stressor-- you feel guilty that others become vegetarian, but doing so is so unpleasant for you that you "fail."

The nutrition of vegetarianism is well-known; I don't believe any cases of people saying they "must" eat meat to survive or to be healthy. But for those who easily give it up to belittle or demonize those who are more motivated to eat meat is cruel IMO and shows a lack of understanding. And even more cruel would be those who demonize themselves for this same reason.

Look at any other motivated behavior. Breathing, for example. What if we could hard-wire oxygen straight into the body, making breathing no longer necessary? I guarantee that a % of the population would totally freak out on an instinct level when their lungs were stopped. Or look at sex: some find it unpleasant or boring, while for others, due to their natural makeup, it's the be-all-end-all of existence. It doesn't really make sense to see virtue in those who don't like it much anyway, or to demonize those who do.

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I think in principle you are basically right, but a little innacurate. Grazing cows don't tend to chop voles or birds into little pieces. So if you can prevent industrial ploughing of say a quarter acre per animal, the question is this: how many animals, on average, die per hectare (or acre or whatever) of farming?

I don't know the answer, but my guess is that the number of incidental farm-machinery-based deaths of little critters in a field capable of supporting one bovine animal is greater than one. Therefore the consumption of grass-fed cows will save lives over the consumption of grain-fed cows. In the case of grain-fed people, obviously the greater efficiency will decrease that count-- but even vegetarian eating will still indirectly cause the deaths of many innocent creatures; to really be blood-free, you have to be willing to take control of your own food production, or be a hypocrite to a degree if you are not willing to change your lifestyle.

That being said, we're missing an important option: if people really cared about their impact on their animals, it might be possible to develop food-producing technologies that do NOT incidentally kill little critters. But at our current stage, that seems pretty far off.

Sorry bennyboy, but your statements are the reason I lean towards the concept that vegetarianism/ veganism is just a cult. "You didn't try/ pray hard enough, didn't give it enough time, are too lazy ....yadida... yadida.

Fanciful thinking but impractical mate.

One question.... What is going to happen when climate change affects the capacity to grow food crops to feed 7 billion people when we are struggling to feed them now?

???

Did you actually read what you just quoted? I just sympathised with someone who said that her meat-eating diet is so troubling to her that she has to discuss it with her therapist; I said it's wrong for vegetarians to demonize or belittle those whose motivation to eat meat are stronger than theirs. I then went on to explain (to an obvious vegetarian) that even vegetarians necessarily indirectly kill animals unless they control their own food production, and that a vegetarian not willing to make the lifestyle change to do that was a hypocrite. If you made the proper inferences, you should have arrived at the conclusion that I thought a grass-fed cow might result in LESS loss of life than an equivalent amount of grain directly eaten by humans.

How the fuck is this me being a cultist vegetarian? Where the fuck did I talk about people not fucking praying hard enough?

Ya know what? Let's play a game. It's called the "read what you just fucking quoted game." Try it sometime-- you might enjoy it.