(January 19, 2014 at 1:23 pm)jg2014 Wrote:(January 19, 2014 at 1:09 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Are you suggesting that animals deserve the SAME rights as humans?
No, there are many rights would make sense for an animal to have, e.g. the right to vote!
I tend to take a utilitarian approach, and we should have rights that support utilitarian ideas. To that end animals should have the right to be free from human cruelty.
(January 19, 2014 at 1:17 pm)plaincents822 Wrote: When animals become vegan, I will become vegan. Until I see animals (especially carnivorous ones) reciprocate the same ideals to humans that you as a vegan espouse towards animals, I will continue to eat meat. The whole vegan philosophy appears to be that animals have the same rights as humans do and that we should afford them those rights. However if we were not the civilized society that we are, animals would just fuck us up on the daily. Here is the defining difference between humans and animals. I might not agree with veganism, but I understand the principles behind it. Animals will never understand what veganism is. Some might live a "vegan" lifestyle, but they have no conscious idea or reason as to why they do so, other than they just don't eat meat. You may value your life as equal to that of an animal, but an animal will never value your life as equal to its own.
So essentially you are using nature to justify your ethics?
No what I am saying is that humans reciprocate the rights that are given to other humans. I have the right to not be assaulted, and I reciprocate that right to other people. Animals do not have the ability to do so. Why should I afford another creature the same rights I give to other humans when that animal will not afford me that right. Animals do not understand that laws of man, only the laws of nature. If I beat a dog yes someone would take me to court but it wouldn't be the dog. The purpose of giving people rights is to protect everyone, but what you are arguing for is that animals be given better rights than people. That they should be given rights when it is in favor of them (not being eaten) but that they should be exempt from the responsibility that comes with those rights (imprisonment or death for murder). What you have done in this instance is made two classes of citizens. Humans and animals. And you placed animals above humans.
