Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[Aractus]

Hi Aractus,

I very much disagree with this. Firstly two general points, then allergies, then I will address the specific nutritens you are concerned about.

Firstly, if veganism was significantly more unhealthy than an omniverous diet, then why do vegans and vegetarians have a longer life expectancy? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23836264

I've not yet read any further replies, so if I'm repeating what has already been said to you by others, it is independently derived. From the "study" you quoted:

• PARTICIPANTS: A total of 96,469 Seventh-day Adventist men and women recruited between 2002 and 2007, from which an analytic sample of 73,308 participants remained after exclusions.

S.D.A's - 50% or more do not smoke, drink alcohol, consume recreational drugs, drink tea/coffee or eat meat. The church of S.D.A. promotes vegetarian diets and not vegan diets.

Therefore all you have proven is that people who:

1. Don't smoke AND,
   
2. Don't drink alcohol AND,
   
3. Don't take recreational drugs AND,
   
4. Don't drink caffeine AND,
   
5. Lead a devout Christian life with community involvement and regular church attendance AND,
   
6. Eat a vegetarian diet BUT NOT a vegan diet

Have a higher life expectancy.

I know several Adventists and I've never met a vegan Adventist. Even if your quoted study did prove that vegetarian diets are healthy (which it didn't) it would not translate to vegan diets any more than it would to meat-based diets.

Secondly, many authorities disagree with your hypothesis including the NHS, which says "With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs."

From your link:

• Getting enough Vitamin B12
  The body needs vitamin B12 to maintain healthy blood and a healthy nervous system. Vitamin B12 is only found naturally in foods from animal sources. Sources for vegans are therefore limited and a vitamin B12 supplement may be needed.
  
  Sources of vitamin B12 for vegans include:
  • breakfast cereals fortified with B12
    
  • soya drinks fortified with vitamin B12
    
  • yeast extract such as Marmite

Processed foods - that's what I said. You can't get it from unprocessed natural foods that you've grown yourself. I can't imagine vegans eating breakfast cereals without milk, and I can't imagine vegans that are allergic to gluten eating marmite.

Iron- Vegans can acquire this from green leaf vegetables, beans, dried fruit, nuts in addition to fortified foods eg soya milk or breakfast cereal

And can they safely donate blood?

No.

Protein - Yes some plants generally lack some essential amino acids, but

No, all plant based protein lacks essential amino acids, that's why it's not considered as high quality as animal protein.

the ones that are lacking in for example brown rice or other grains, are not the ones lacking in pulses (eg beans and lentils and nuts) So by eating both, ones protein requirements are met. Protein quality is not a significant issue, as the study shows a vegan diet still meets our protein requirements. Secondly some plants do have complete protein, eg soya and quinoa. And there there is the mock meats which are also complete, and are made using mycoprotein.

Even by your own admission, anyone with nut allergies on a vean diet will be deficient in protein.

B12- Yes its, B12 is not found in plants. It is however made by some bacteria, and it is this source of B12 that is used in fortified foods (eg breakfast cereal soya milk, marmite etc.

"Fortified foods"? You mean processed foods.

I'll put this another way - if vegan diets are healthy and natural why do you need processed foods? I don't need to eat a single processed food to eat a healthy diet with meat and/or dairy, but you need processed foods to eat a healthy diet?

Calcium - an be found in tofu, sesame seeds and tahini (hummus), pulses and dried fruit, in addition to fortified foods /supplements.

I think that covers everything?

You've proven what I said last post - a vegan needs to plan every single meal of their lives to eat a healthy balanced diet. If you go to out to a restaurant, you're going to need to go home and eat again. If you go to a party you need to package and bring our own food.

If you feel you are lacking in a vitamin, have a multivitamin. Oh yes, also milk for vegan babies, this can be deficient in nutrients if the mothers diet is deficient, most commonly because of a lack of B12 in raw vegans. If the mother has a well planned diet this is not a problem, as expressed by the American Dietetic Association statement I quoted above.

Wrong. You have not prove that point. B12 isn't the only thing - calcium and protein is extremely important too.

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Meat eating however certainly does infringe the rights of animals.

Batshit crazy.

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Are you suggesting that animals deserve the SAME rights as humans?

Nope, he's saying they still have the right to run about and kill each other for pleasure in the wild, a right we don't have.