RE: Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?
January 20, 2014 at 1:09 pm
(This post was last modified: January 20, 2014 at 1:20 pm by Bad Wolf.)
(January 20, 2014 at 12:18 pm)jg2014 Wrote: Firstly, any form of killing that prevents an animal from living its full life span is inducing a form of suffering.
No, you don't get to define what suffering is to suit your argument.
And why? why is killing an animal before it dies of old age, suffering?
(January 19, 2014 at 11:59 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Secondly, I would argue that life on a farm is far worse. At least in the wild I have a rich and complex environment to explore. On a farm it its monotonous, with every single young animal forcibly removed from its mother. Overfed and over weight, in a dense population were disease is easily spread. Udder infections branding, dehorning, clipping of the chickens beak. Its a horrible life. At least as a wild animals I have a chance.
You have clearly anthropomorphised animals. You are in no position at all to argue this argument.
(January 19, 2014 at 11:59 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Lastly, you say that your obsession with meat is not an obsession because it is natural and normal. Sounds like two fallacies in one sentence. Appeal to the people, and to nature.
You are just being dense now. Does the chimpanzee have an obsession with meat because it can eat both meat and plants but sometimes chooses to eat meat? What about the brown bear?
They are omnivores because they require both meat and plant matter. A human is also an omnivore, meaning that eating meat is completely natural and not an obsession, we evolved to do this. A human with an obsession over meat would probably only eat meat..... in fact, I don't even know what an obsession with meat would look like? It is very clear that you have an obsession, of what, i don't know yet.
(January 20, 2014 at 1:05 pm)jg2014 Wrote: Many people argue that if one is conscious and has interests, then one should have the inherent right for those interests not to be disregarded and be treated as property, in much the same way as humans have an inherent right not to be treated as property ie not be a slave)
Yea, and many other people would argue that animals have no where near the level of consciousness for them to have interests other than eating, shitting and mating.
(January 20, 2014 at 1:05 pm)jg2014 Wrote: Apprehension or ignorance is irrelevant to this argument.
Anyhow, that is an aside. If the humans also had no fear because death was instantaneous and in one's sleep, then by your logic it would be ok to kill a human, right? Ignorance is, as you say, bliss.
No, the amount of mental gymnastics you have performed to come to that conclusion could win a medal.
Killing another person for no other reason than eating them is illegal, for good reason. It is very likely that this person knew other people and the psychological damage caused by breaking those relationships is not justified, just so you can eat them. However, if this person was a murderer or a rapist or something that deserved the death penalty, then sure, go ahead. They would only be wasting tax in a life jail sentance.
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"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech