Alcoholics Anonymous and the like

[Chas]

I've been in and out of various twelve step groups over the years, and had mostly positive experiences, but then I live in a very secular state, so that probably makes a difference. It's like the unitarian church I sometimes frequent, which is described as the most atheistic in the city. I didn't choose them, much less for that, they were just close by. But it points out that your experience is likely to vary from group to group, and location to location, as well as group focus. I was in Alanon, ACOA, and Nicotine Anonymous, so I likely faced a different mix. From the straight up 12 step groups, I suspect the consistency depends a lot on the local intergroup (sort of a support organization for the groups themselves). If you're looking for consistency and quality, I would suggest focusing on group therapy from a reputable clinic. Ultimately, I suppose the garbage in / garbage out principle applies; if it's run well by good people, and doesn't have a bunch of shitheads in it, it'll probably be positive; if the people are garbage, your experience will likely be, too (not implying that people with chemical dependency are good or bad). I have a concern, though I haven't researched it enough to determine its credibility, but there are reports that once you adjust AA's claimed success rate to compare apples-to-apples with other programs, AA is not a very successful program. As a person whose parents had control issues, I suspect that an addict struggling to control his behavior may find the model of control advocated by 12 step groups to be a useful tool. Beyond that, I can't say much about the deeper experience, other than that the amount of support you have in your life is one of the main factors associated with success, regardless of the behavioral issue. I never got deep enough into the programs to get into sponsors and whatnot. I tend to be very shy and somewhat timid, and that aspect literally freezes me; I don't know that I could ever walk that road, given my social anxiety issues.

It's hard to get accurate statistics about the success rate of AA. I'm pretty sure it's not as successful as people in AA are led to believe.

The quality and success of groups varies widely, and it is all about the people. There are some pretty toxic groups out there and there are some very supportive and successful ones.

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I offered a useful answer to the OP, that a 12-step program can be successfully used by an atheist, since the 'higher power' thing was off-putting.

The bickering is because an ignoramus is making uninformed statements without providing any evidence.

You speak as if you provided some. You should know how it works: You make the claim that AA have some kind of results better from those a person could get by willpower, you provide the evidence. Lying to yourself that they don't try to cram God's or higher powers, while telling you that you are weak, incapable of fighting that fight without going trough the bullshit is not evidence. There are professionals that deal and are trained to help people with addictions. Use the fucking google for something else than confirm your personal bias.

Oh and try to stop projecting your ignorance into me, like I said and its the third time "Et tu Brute?"

I made no claim about the success rate of AA. You have. Support it or STFU.

Read this.

And this.