Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[James2014]

What is your definition of conscious?

Consciousness for me is awareness that results from the binding together of sensory inputs to create one single experience and cognitive representation of the world. For example, the nematode worm can learn to make simple associations, an odour or a light can be presented with an electric shock such that the animal can learn that the odour signals they are about to be shocked.

However, when multiple stimuli are paired together, for example an odour only signalling they are about to get shocked when it is also light, they cannot learn this. They cannot bind together different sensory modalities (in this case the ability to smell and the ability to detect light).

Rats and Mice on the other hand, can do this, they have episodic memory, the ability to remember the what where and when of events. Their experiences are bound together to allow them to create new representations of the world. Emotions are further bound up within this stream of awareness so that distress can result in a more "pessimistic" representation. Together this means that animals have consciousness and experience suffering.

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1.Humans are conscious and can suffer
2. Causing suffering is wrong
3. Shooting humans causes people to suffer
Therefore war is wrong.

Yet we still keep killing people for our country


Ok, so from the way you talks you must not own a pet. Or at least a dog or cat.
Dogs are carnivores. We own them and must give them food. Most dogs, like wolves, do best on raw meat. Most dogs don't know how to hunt. So to prevent the animal from starving to death we have to kill another to feed it.
Is it wrong to kill one animal to help another? This animal that we kill will most likely get a bolt to the head(here in the USA). A quick death(also nerves of a dead animal can still have reactions long after they die. Meaning their muscles still move. This happens even with euthanasia drugs) . It will then be processed or cut up.Then fed to dog.

How is that any different the a person eating the animal?

Yep, war is wrong, killing people is wrong, do we disagree with this? Sure it might be justified under exceptional circumstances, eg it self defence, but the principle generally holds true

I don't think we should keep carnivores as pets. It s possible to feed carnivores a vegan diet with the appropriate understanding of their physiological needs, and their are vegan dog foods out there. Unfortunately though, there is little research to show how effective and safe it is. No money in it sadly.

One could argue that because dogs require meat, unlike humans, that feeding it to them is justified. This argument is stronger when considering dogs that have been abandoned etc., less so when considering people deliberately breed them.

Oh yes, you mentioned that kill animals with a bolt is painless? In fact research shows this is frequently not effective, with 8% of cattle(15% for young bulls) showing signs of consciousness http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...4007001544