Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[James2014]

I'm curious about breakfast cereals as supplements. I have a box of "Choco Hoops," a Tesco-branded cereal, and it has 100g giving about 34% of the RDA for B12, presumably for an adult consuming about 2000 calories/day. For a child, we're looking at about 1600 calories, so close to 43%. Not a bad start. I know for some vitamins there are issues with absorption as well as amount consumed, though. You've hit on a mediating point with me-- children. While I'm bordering on vegan these days, I wouldn't even bother telling my wife to stop giving the kids milk. This thread, though, has really made me start thinking about how much suffering milk-cows involve, even if they live to relative maturity. I'm not sure it's meaningfully less than meat stock. One number I'd like to see is the overall protein/caloric/calcium production of a milk cow over the time period it takes to raise meat stock.

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No, I don't think they should be more feedlot rather than grass fed. The point is all the studies show that per kg of protein, meat is worse for the environment, producing 11 times as much greenhouse gasses. The measure of how many kg of grain does it take to produce a kg of meat is useful only in so far as it is a measure of inefficiency and harm to the environment. The point is no matter how you raise cattle it is still worse than grain.

I think the winning point is a function of environmental impact, as well as the efficiency of getting nutrients into people's bodies. There are regional issues in some areas (like Tibet) that making sustainable farming of plant foods impossible (afaik).

However, in countries with a choice, unless meat can provide perfect calorie and protein conversion (which it doesn't), then grain-based foods are going to be a big winner in this department (whatever the rate of inefficiency is).

Re B12 from cereals, it depends on what cereals you buy. For example Tesco's Bran flakes contain 100% of our daily requirements of B12 per 100g portion, and you get the benefits of whole grains too. According to this study the B12 in cereals are absorbed well.

With Tibet although the high altitudes make farming crops difficult, they also have poor infrastructure that really reduces yields. Regardless, I don't see anything wrong with being a net importer of food, and it makes sense economically to be more specialised in one industry to gain a competitive advantage when trading with another country, rather than trying to do a bit of everything poorly.