(February 10, 2014 at 11:23 pm)Rahul Wrote: You are making a fundamental error. It isn't a "person". It's a brainless, breathing human body. If I cut off your arm and you see it laying on the ground is that arm you? No, it was a part of your body.
You think I'm making a fundamental error. The interesting thing is that this is not even part of our debate here. Are we discussing personhood? Nope. We are discussing whether or not it is logical or illogical to keep a human being alive when it is brain dead.
Quote:Even the molecules that comprise that arm weren't there a couple years ago. Our bodies are constantly rebuilding and purging out old molecules. Divorced from the part of your body that contains your awareness it isn't a person. It's a thing. A thing that used to belong to the body of a person.
Irrelevant.
Quote:If I remove your brain from your skull and toss it in the proverbial brain vat, is your old body you? No. It contains no awareness. It was simply the housing of a person. Separated from that it becomes a non-person. A biological object.
*sigh* also irrelevant.
Quote:I'm not trying to determine what is psychologically health in every case. But living with a breathing corpse instead of accepting reality is not healthy for a person who is mentally healthy. If someone finds joy in such a thing they need help to become psychologically healthy.
What we should not do is to encourage unhealthy behavior.
Who is encouraging it? She has every legal right to do what she is doing. You're arguing morality, which isn't really logic. Which is the debate we are actually having or that we were having. I don't know what is happening now.
Quote:But we're both doing it.
Where am I making valued statements about her mental health? Nowhere, if I recall correctly. The only thing I am doing is presenting scenarios where your black and white statements could be incorrect. You are the one diagnosing her with mental issues.
Quote:Not if she was mentally healthy. No parent would be happy as a pig in shit that the child they had hoped for was replaced with a brainless corpse.
It's all about perspective. She may not see it that way. You are making the mistake of assuming everyone thinks like you and will therefore be damaged by the same things that damage you. The world doesn't work that way.
Quote:Many serial killers were overcome with joy by killing people. Because they were mentally disturbed. An unhealthy mind frequently encourages itself to engage in unhealthy pursuits.
People always jump to serial killers no matter how big a leap it is. There is such a thing as free will. A parent has the right to help its child to live, be it brain dead or not. Are you suggesting we legislate this as we legislate murder? If so, that is, again, an entirely different argument.
Quote:Correct. A mentally unhealthy person who needed help.
Sure, in that scenario, but again, we're trying to determine whether there is logic to keeping a child alive. You have failed to give more than an emotional argument, which I happen to agree with, so where is the part where someone proves that there is a logical problem equal to the task of determining whether a brain dead human should live or die?
Quote:Agreed. She should deal with it. She should go through the grieving process and move on with her life. Not stay in limbo caring for a brainless piece of meat and clinging to illusions that she has a baby to take care of.
Should, according to you. Well, according to me too, but again, emotions.
Quote:No. As a dispassionate observer who does not know this woman or have any emotions invested in her plight I am stating what healthy behavior would be to any mentally healthy person.
No, you are using your emotional experiences to form an argument which you then call logical. Well, you weren't the first, but still. Why can no one provide an actual logical argument if they are going to call it a logical problem? I'll make it simple. That is because this is not a logical problem. It is based solely on personal, emotional, spiritual, religious and familial experiences. If you were her or a religious person like her, you would feel very differently.
