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I was just in a debate with a christian
#55
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian
(February 11, 2014 at 3:40 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: It's not a plan just that humans are subject to sin (serious character flaws) and death which can/will result in a separation from God that being the eternal state of Hell. But God offers to give you grace through Christ which wipes your slate 100% clean which results in a decent form of immorality/existence after death. But you have the free choice to reject this and live the life of a complete asshole instead and this continues after physically die seeing as you are an immortal being in the spiritual image of God even if flawed. But what the system allows for importantly is freewill and there is a consequence to evil actions.


Please provide reference for your claim of your version of hell. This is the hell I've found biblical reference for :

Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


Matthew 25:46 NIV
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."


... And Hell is a sulfery fiery torment for eternity.


Revelation 20:15 ESV / 37 helpful votes

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelations 21
8 But for the cowardly and [d]unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”

Revelations 14 (NEW TESTAMENT)
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Revelations 19
“Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.”

And again they shouted: “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes upfor ever and ever.”

Matthew 10:28 ESV / 22 helpful votes

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

John 15:6 ESV / 13 helpful votes

If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.


Hebrews 10:26-31 ESV / 12 helpful votes

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”

Matthew 5:22 ESV / 10 helpful votes

But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.

Matthew 25:30 ESV / 6 helpful votes

And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’


Luke 12:5 ESV / 15 helpful votes

But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!

Revelations 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beastu and the false prophetv had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.

Romans 1:18 ESV / 117 helpful votes

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.


(Rev. 19:19-21)

But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

1 John 5:10-12
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Revelations 14
9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Jeremiah states,

Hebrews 9:22 ESV / 17 helpful votes

Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.


Proverbs 1:24-33
New International Version (NIV)
24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me,

29 since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the Lord.
30 Since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,

31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.

Romans 2:5
But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!

Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.

Dead wrong.  The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.

Quote:Some people deserve hell.

I say again:  No exceptions.  Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it.  As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.

[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]
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Messages In This Thread
I was just in a debate with a christian - by Boris Karloff - February 11, 2014 at 1:29 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Minimalist - February 11, 2014 at 1:30 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Rev. Rye - February 11, 2014 at 3:13 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 2:41 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Jacob(smooth) - February 11, 2014 at 12:47 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 11, 2014 at 4:04 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Cinjin - February 11, 2014 at 4:12 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by StuW - February 11, 2014 at 10:44 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Alex K - February 11, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Mister Agenda - February 11, 2014 at 12:11 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 11, 2014 at 3:06 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 11, 2014 at 3:52 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 12, 2014 at 7:31 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 12, 2014 at 9:16 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 12, 2014 at 1:12 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 13, 2014 at 12:26 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 12, 2014 at 10:47 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Mystical - February 13, 2014 at 1:25 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 13, 2014 at 1:38 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Simon Moon - February 11, 2014 at 2:24 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Minimalist - February 11, 2014 at 11:10 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 11, 2014 at 12:22 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Godschild - February 11, 2014 at 1:37 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Rahul - February 11, 2014 at 8:35 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Godschild - February 12, 2014 at 12:22 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 12, 2014 at 6:39 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by LastPoet - February 12, 2014 at 11:03 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Rahul - February 12, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 5:40 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Zen Badger - February 12, 2014 at 6:34 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 7:22 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Godschild - February 12, 2014 at 12:22 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 12:24 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Jacob(smooth) - February 12, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Alex K - February 12, 2014 at 1:08 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Faith No More - February 13, 2014 at 11:27 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Drich - February 12, 2014 at 1:38 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by truthBtold - February 12, 2014 at 7:26 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Cinjin - February 12, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by pocaracas - February 13, 2014 at 10:00 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by truthBtold - February 12, 2014 at 7:42 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Minimalist - February 12, 2014 at 8:43 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Drich - February 12, 2014 at 8:51 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Cinjin - February 12, 2014 at 9:19 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 13, 2014 at 7:30 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Bad Wolf - February 13, 2014 at 7:32 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 13, 2014 at 8:06 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Mystical - February 13, 2014 at 12:19 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Faith No More - February 13, 2014 at 11:29 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 13, 2014 at 9:28 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Faith No More - February 13, 2014 at 11:32 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by pocaracas - February 13, 2014 at 11:56 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 13, 2014 at 1:25 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Cinjin - February 13, 2014 at 6:50 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Angrboda - February 16, 2014 at 5:31 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Faith No More - February 13, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Faith No More - February 13, 2014 at 12:05 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by FreeTony - February 13, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 14, 2014 at 2:28 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Rahul - February 15, 2014 at 1:41 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Bad Wolf - February 13, 2014 at 1:14 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by truthBtold - February 15, 2014 at 1:56 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 17, 2014 at 8:11 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 17, 2014 at 8:19 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 17, 2014 at 8:52 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 17, 2014 at 10:05 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by pocaracas - February 17, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 17, 2014 at 10:28 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Alex K - February 17, 2014 at 9:01 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by MitchBenn - February 17, 2014 at 8:21 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 17, 2014 at 8:51 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 17, 2014 at 9:14 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 17, 2014 at 9:54 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Tonus - February 17, 2014 at 2:54 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by shep - February 19, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Crossless1 - February 17, 2014 at 8:21 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Bad Wolf - February 17, 2014 at 9:54 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Bad Wolf - February 17, 2014 at 10:08 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Bad Wolf - February 17, 2014 at 1:49 pm
I was just in a debate with a christian - by Rampant.A.I. - February 17, 2014 at 2:43 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Bad Wolf - February 17, 2014 at 2:55 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Mystical - February 17, 2014 at 5:18 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 18, 2014 at 12:48 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by DarkHorse - February 19, 2014 at 11:10 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Crossless1 - February 19, 2014 at 9:49 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Esquilax - February 20, 2014 at 1:57 am
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by ThomM - February 19, 2014 at 5:00 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by Bad Wolf - February 19, 2014 at 8:51 pm
I was just in a debate with a christian - by Rampant.A.I. - February 19, 2014 at 9:11 pm
RE: I was just in a debate with a christian - by DarkHorse - February 20, 2014 at 2:20 am

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