RE: The Historical Jesus is real and He rose from the grave
March 31, 2014 at 10:12 pm
(This post was last modified: March 31, 2014 at 10:21 pm by Revelation777.)
(March 31, 2014 at 10:48 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:(March 31, 2014 at 10:36 am)Alex K Wrote: I think the technical term is "die of Him".
Nice. And speaking of "why do they think this is convincing..."
Christians often use the alleged martyrdom of early Christians as proof that the myths must be true or they wouldn't have done it. I am more than a little skeptical of how much the folklore of early Christian suffering represents real history but let that go.
I usually bring of David Koresh, The Heaven's Gate (or Hale Bopp) cult and Jim Jones as modern examples of people dying for absurd religions, including the founders who should have known their stuff was bs. And this is in the modern age, a supposedly skeptical time when fact checking is just a Google search away. 2000 years ago, the world was awash in superstition and the citizens of that time were mostly illiterate.
Usually, I get blank looks in response. They don't seem to understand why there's any comparison. These other examples are just crazy cultists but the early Christians knew The Truth. The special pleading escapes them.
Even the more savvy apologists will try to draw some kind of artificial distinction. "These cultists didn't know they were dying for lies." But the martyrs of these cults included the leaders, who should have known. "But these cult leaders were crazy." And it's impossible that Paul or the other apostles were crazy?
Putting aside that this argument tries to use folklore to prove mythology, the special pleading is extra thick.
Jesus warned that there would be false teachers. Sadly, many followed them to their own destruction. No need to look back to the early church for many who died for Jesus. There are many more today who are being martyred for their faith in Christ than back then.
(March 31, 2014 at 10:11 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote:(March 31, 2014 at 10:04 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: He has placed a love in my heart for atheists.
Guard your buttholes. GUARD YOUR BUTTHOLES!
I'm happily married.
(March 31, 2014 at 10:52 am)Alex K Wrote:(March 31, 2014 at 10:48 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Nice. And speaking of "why do they think this is convincing..."
Christians often use the alleged martyrdom of early Christians as proof that the myths must be true or they wouldn't have done it. I am more than a little skeptical of how much the folklore of early Christian suffering represents real history but let that go.
There is a nice episode or two of the "Reasonable Doubts" podcast explaining why all the alleged early christian martyrdom is not quite what it's usually made out to be.
Where they there?
(March 31, 2014 at 12:06 pm)Tonus Wrote:(March 30, 2014 at 9:38 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Where you there at the Big Bang?"Every single time." --Ron Jeremy
(March 31, 2014 at 8:53 am)Revelation777 Wrote: The impact of Jesus' life is much greater than that. People all over the world die for Him.If the only martyrs were Christian martyrs, there might be something to that. If only people who prayed to Yahweh claimed that their prayers were answered, there might be something to that. If the only claims of supernatural experiences were made by Christians, there might be something to that.
People all over the world report contact with aliens. Children all over the world find money under their pillows when they lose a tooth. And so on. I'm betting that you filter most of these claims through a very skeptical filter, which you conspicuously remove when it comes time to analyze biblical claims.
Sorry, have trouble comparing the Tooth Fairy with Christ.
(March 31, 2014 at 6:01 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote:(March 31, 2014 at 4:36 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John
A claim, not evidence.
What else have you got?
If I had just one of those accounts that is convincing enough for me.
(March 31, 2014 at 4:08 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Revelation777, if you stand before Jesus and he asks you why you furthered the cause of anti-theism by making Christians out to be such gullible idiots, what will you say?
I would say Lord I understand what you meant when you wrote in your Book:
1Co_1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
