(April 16, 2014 at 7:00 am)Ben Davis Wrote:(April 15, 2014 at 11:21 am)paulpablo Wrote: I accept that maybe I'm confused with what a contradiction is but to me if someone says "I do not _____" Folllowed by a separate sentence of "I do _____ in specific circumstances" that's a contradiction. Because you can't do something in specific circumstances while not doing it at all.An exception to the rule isn't necessarily a contradiction as long as you state that the rule has exceptions. If you state that the rule has no exceptions and then make an exception, you create a contradiction.
This seems like an obvious contradiction to me.
So is the first statement an absolute? If not then exceptions are fine. I've had similar discussions because the qur'an is littered with rules which can be interpreted as absolute (but are not explicitly stated as such) but then are given exceptions later. IMO this is a deliberate mechanism of vaguary by the authors to allow rules to be inserted as required either through additional verses or official interpretation (e.g. the haddith and clerical mechanisms).
I understand that in the English language you can say things like "I do not feed cats until Sunday."
Or "I do not feed cats if it is not a Sunday"
And if the quran included the words "Until" or "If" in the verse this would mean no contradiction.
But to have a verse that specifically says "God does not forgive shirk" and he doesn't give an exception to this rule even in the same verse.
In fact I don't even think this is a contradiction within the quran but a contradiction on what the quran says and what Muslims believe in order to increase the number of christian converts.
Because it's difficult to tell someone "Yes you should join our religion, you're already eternally unforgiven for the sin you have already committed though".
But there are some hadith verses which contradict god not forgiving shirk and some quran verses which say god forgives all the sins of his slaves, whoever his slaves are? I don't know if he considers christians to be his slaves aswell.
Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.
Impersonation is treason.