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Current time: June 10, 2025, 11:04 am

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Who throws the dice for you?
RE: Who throws the dice for you?
(April 19, 2014 at 3:49 pm)Cato Wrote:
(April 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm)Heywood Wrote: The Man from Atlantis, Sasquatch, or the Easter Bunny, if they existed, would all qualify as hidden, local, physical variables. Consider this argument.

Premise 1. Quantum mechanics is true.
Premise 2. Bell's Theorem is true.
Premise 3. Many worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is false.
Premise 4. If our reality is dependent on a supernatural element, then we should observe events which cannot be explained scientifically.
Premise 5. We observe events for which it is virtually impossible to explain scientifically.
Conclusion: Therefore our reality is dependent on a supernatural element.

Where is the fallacy in this argument?
If our reality is dependent on a supernatural element, doesn't that make the God hypothesis more likely than it would have been otherwise?

Premise 4 begs the question.
Premise 5 has the hidden premise that our current state of scientific knowledge is exhaustive.

Even if 3 were definitive, the right conclusion is that we lack sufficient information to make a claim and suspend judgement until we know more.


Premise 1 and 2, I'm fairly certain these are true.
Premise 3 I'm indifferent.
Premise 4 is a conditional...there is no question begging. It does not conclude that a supernatural element does indeed exist. A condition has to be met to make that conclusion.
Premise 5 follows from premise 1 and 2. If you accept 1 and 2, you just have to accept 5...I see no way around it.

I would say the likelihood of our reality being dependent on a supernatural element is a little less than 50%.
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Messages In This Thread
Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 8:25 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Zen Badger - April 11, 2014 at 8:27 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tommynba - April 11, 2014 at 8:43 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 8:45 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 11, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by LastPoet - April 11, 2014 at 8:46 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 8:50 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by John V - April 11, 2014 at 9:36 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cyberman - April 11, 2014 at 12:04 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Wyrd of Gawd - April 13, 2014 at 12:11 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 13, 2014 at 12:44 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by pocaracas - April 11, 2014 at 8:53 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 9:02 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 11, 2014 at 9:51 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by CapnAwesome - April 12, 2014 at 5:11 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by LastPoet - April 11, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 11, 2014 at 8:56 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by KUSA - April 11, 2014 at 9:22 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by ThePinsir - April 11, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by pocaracas - April 11, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 11, 2014 at 10:17 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by LostLocke - April 11, 2014 at 11:11 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 11, 2014 at 11:14 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by LastPoet - April 11, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fromper - April 11, 2014 at 11:53 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 4:17 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 11, 2014 at 4:19 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Tonus - April 11, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fromper - April 11, 2014 at 4:36 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 4:59 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ryantology - April 11, 2014 at 6:13 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 11, 2014 at 4:53 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 12, 2014 at 10:30 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 12, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 12, 2014 at 11:23 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Silver - April 11, 2014 at 12:06 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 11, 2014 at 3:34 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Minimalist - April 11, 2014 at 3:37 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fromper - April 11, 2014 at 4:02 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 11, 2014 at 4:06 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 5:05 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 5:12 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 5:27 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 5:50 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 5:59 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Tobie - April 11, 2014 at 6:01 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by smax - April 11, 2014 at 5:20 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 5:28 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by smax - April 11, 2014 at 5:53 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 11, 2014 at 5:31 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 11, 2014 at 5:36 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 5:43 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Tobie - April 11, 2014 at 5:46 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 6:05 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 6:17 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 6:25 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 6:52 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 7:02 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 7:06 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 11, 2014 at 5:45 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 11, 2014 at 7:11 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 7:19 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 8:30 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 11, 2014 at 8:44 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 10:10 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 11, 2014 at 10:11 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 10:25 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 11, 2014 at 10:27 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 11, 2014 at 10:29 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 11, 2014 at 10:32 pm
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 11, 2014 at 10:40 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 12, 2014 at 2:45 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 12, 2014 at 9:31 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Bob the Dugong Deity - April 12, 2014 at 10:48 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 12, 2014 at 11:31 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 12, 2014 at 11:49 am
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 12, 2014 at 4:47 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 12, 2014 at 11:00 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 12, 2014 at 11:52 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 13, 2014 at 10:10 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 13, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 14, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 14, 2014 at 11:57 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 12, 2014 at 5:01 pm
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 13, 2014 at 1:01 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by LostLocke - April 13, 2014 at 1:03 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 13, 2014 at 6:28 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 14, 2014 at 8:28 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 14, 2014 at 9:34 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 14, 2014 at 11:01 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 14, 2014 at 11:49 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 14, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Fidel_Castronaut - April 14, 2014 at 12:34 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 14, 2014 at 12:40 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 15, 2014 at 4:44 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 15, 2014 at 9:56 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 15, 2014 at 11:12 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 15, 2014 at 11:35 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Chas - April 15, 2014 at 7:11 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 15, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 15, 2014 at 12:07 pm
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 13, 2014 at 1:49 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 14, 2014 at 8:31 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 14, 2014 at 9:32 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by tor - April 14, 2014 at 9:33 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Mudhammam - April 14, 2014 at 11:09 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 14, 2014 at 1:02 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 14, 2014 at 1:21 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 14, 2014 at 1:54 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 15, 2014 at 11:23 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 16, 2014 at 5:19 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 16, 2014 at 10:03 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 16, 2014 at 10:48 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 16, 2014 at 11:14 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by LostLocke - April 16, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 16, 2014 at 11:49 am
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 14, 2014 at 1:24 pm
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 15, 2014 at 5:04 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Silver - April 15, 2014 at 11:50 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by pocaracas - April 15, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ryantology - April 15, 2014 at 7:08 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by FallentoReason - April 15, 2014 at 11:37 pm
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 16, 2014 at 11:44 am
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 16, 2014 at 11:56 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 16, 2014 at 12:07 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 16, 2014 at 12:48 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 16, 2014 at 2:54 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 16, 2014 at 3:34 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 16, 2014 at 4:35 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by FallentoReason - April 16, 2014 at 2:57 pm
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 16, 2014 at 2:20 pm
Who throws the dice for you? - by Rampant.A.I. - April 16, 2014 at 3:09 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 16, 2014 at 9:27 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Faith No More - April 16, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ryantology - April 16, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 17, 2014 at 8:13 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 17, 2014 at 10:59 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 17, 2014 at 11:17 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 18, 2014 at 2:51 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 18, 2014 at 4:27 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 18, 2014 at 5:52 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Esquilax - April 18, 2014 at 6:18 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 18, 2014 at 6:26 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Esquilax - April 19, 2014 at 7:05 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 7:17 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Esquilax - April 19, 2014 at 7:50 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 8:04 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Esquilax - April 19, 2014 at 8:37 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Esquilax - April 19, 2014 at 9:11 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 9:32 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 19, 2014 at 12:35 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 2:44 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 19, 2014 at 3:22 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 3:40 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 19, 2014 at 3:49 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 4:13 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 19, 2014 at 4:17 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 4:26 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 19, 2014 at 4:25 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 10:05 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 19, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 11:03 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 19, 2014 at 11:51 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 20, 2014 at 6:12 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 21, 2014 at 11:10 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 19, 2014 at 4:08 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 20, 2014 at 10:16 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cato - April 20, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 20, 2014 at 4:25 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 18, 2014 at 6:29 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 18, 2014 at 7:09 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 18, 2014 at 8:05 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 18, 2014 at 10:04 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Coffee Jesus - April 18, 2014 at 6:49 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 18, 2014 at 5:58 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 18, 2014 at 6:01 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 19, 2014 at 12:19 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 19, 2014 at 6:47 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by pocaracas - April 17, 2014 at 11:23 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ryantology - April 17, 2014 at 2:19 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by RobbyPants - April 17, 2014 at 3:38 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cyberman - April 17, 2014 at 4:52 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 16, 2014 at 6:23 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 16, 2014 at 6:30 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 16, 2014 at 6:36 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 16, 2014 at 6:48 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 16, 2014 at 7:14 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Angrboda - April 16, 2014 at 8:11 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Ben Davis - April 17, 2014 at 5:06 am
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Tobie - April 18, 2014 at 4:36 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Cyberman - April 18, 2014 at 6:21 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 18, 2014 at 10:37 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Heywood - April 18, 2014 at 10:45 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Anomalocaris - April 18, 2014 at 10:51 pm
RE: Who throws the dice for you? - by Jackalope - April 19, 2014 at 4:28 pm

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