The redneck strike again.

[Confused Ape]

Even Lord Shiva that live well before Buddha
teach tantric meditation so mantra meditation was
there before Buddha.

I've been doing a bit of research into Shiva.

Vedanet Com - Shiva, the Supreme Lord of Yoga

The article makes it very clear that he's a god, the ultimate something which manifests but isn't incarnated. (I'm not sure if that's the correct term but it will have to do).

As the primal reality, Shiva is looked upon in four main ways. Shiva is first the original light of reality, Prakasha. Second, he is the immortal life force, Prana. Third, he is primal sound, OM or Pranava. Fourth he is the primal being or pure consciousness, Atman orPurusha, our own inner Self and true nature.

He is the being of cosmic consciousness far beyond the constraints of any creaturely mind and its compulsions.

He doesn't just manifest in humans.

Shiva is also the great deity of nature, the lord of animals or Pashupati. He is the lord of the wild. He really has no human form. We find his face and form hidden in nature, whether in the mountain, tree, the cloud, the animal or the rock.

This next bit relates to what humans were doing 70,000 years ago.

Looking back in time and history, we could say that Shiva is the deity of the shaman also, and as such perhaps the oldest formulation of the sacred in humanity He is the lord of the dance, of ecstasy, of the drum, of dream and trance which the Shaman seeks. To Shiva belongs the sacred fire and the sacred plant, the Agni and Soma of Vedic lore.

I discovered a website about him run by Dr NILIMA CHITGOPEKAR.

Her specialisation is Ancient Indian History.

Dr. Chitgopekar is a recipient of The Shivdasani Fellowship to the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies, Oxford University in January 2004.

She is also a r ecipient of the Charles Wallace India Research Award in May 2005 to facilitate research in the UK.

The website is The Shiva Experience and it's teaching a spiritual path. There's a very interesting article on it - Where did Lord Shiva come from? Proof of existence of Lord Shiva?

Lord Shiva was and is a god who is held in high regard. His popularity can be seen by the fact that he is worshipped in all parts of India and his presence can be seen from north to south, east to west in a country that is very well known for its diversity.

One of the documented proofs of the existence of Lord Shiva indicating his origins can be found in Mohenjo-daro. That would mean that the proof is over 4000 years old!! Here Lord Shiva is seen in the form of Pashupati or the lord of animal like beings. The reason this proof, which is in the form of a seal discovered during a dig, is considered one of the earliest recordings of Lord Shiva is because of the figure carved out on the seal. The figure seems to be sitting in a yoga position with its knees out and its feet joined together and is surrounded by animals. Lord Shiva has been considered by many to be a Mahayogi or a great yogi. He is credited with the invention of yoga.

The article finishes with -

But if we were to follow what the Puranas, ancient Hindu scriptures, tell us then Lord Shiva has no origin. According to these holy scriptures Lord Shiva has no beginning and no end. He is immortal and will live forever. He has not been born and so in essence, he cannot die.

So, Shiva did not live before Buddha and he's been credited with inventing yoga in the same way that the Egyptian Goddess, Isis, was credited with teaching humans weaving and medicine.

The Mohenjo-daro seal is only 4,000 years old but, it's possible that the origins of Shiva as Lord of the Animals is much earlier than that.

I'll leave you with a quote from C.G.Jung where he's talking about a subjective experience.

The Self

The self is the most important personality archetype and also the most difficult to understand. Jung has called the self the central archetype, the archetype of psychological order and the totality of the personality.

It's like the blueprint for how the human mind operates but this doesn't automatically mean it's something mystical which is divorced from how the human brain operates.

The ego receives the light from the Self. Though we know of this Self, yet it is not known.... Although we receive the light of consciousness from the Self and although we know it to be the source of our illumination, we do not know whether it possesses anything we would call consciousness.... If the Self could be wholly experienced, it would be a limited experience, whereas in reality its experience is unlimited and endless.... If I were one with the Self I would have knowledge of everything, I would speak Sanskrit, read cuneiform script, know the events that took place in pre-history be acquainted with the life of other planets, etc. ( 1975, pp.194-195)

The human brain can produce dreamlike, symbolic experiences. The human blueprint has been the same in every member of the modern human species who has ever lived, including those who speak Sanskrit or read cuneiform script. Symbols aren't to be taken literally, though. If I ever became one with the Self I wouldn't suddenly know how to speak any other languages or be able to read cuneiform. I'm now wondering if this kind of experience is what leads people to believe in reincarnation.

As for the Self knowing about the life of other planets, well, if the brain is going to produce dreamlike symbols it might as well include the universe while it's at it.