(April 25, 2010 at 11:14 am)Logikos Wrote:(April 25, 2010 at 10:55 am)Paul the Human Wrote: (In reference to Logikos' response to me.): Semantics. You know what I mean.
I did, but just wanted to check that we were on the same page.
Then I am right in saying that you were playing semantic games.
(April 25, 2010 at 11:14 am)Logikos Wrote:(April 25, 2010 at 10:55 am)Paul the Human Wrote: There is no legitimate reason to believe the claim that god(s) exist. Therefore, there is no legitimate reason to believe the claim that god(s) exist. It's not a complicated thing.
Did you mean to say the same thing here? I'm guessing you meant that "therefore, it is irrational to believe the claim"?
I meant what I said. There is no legitimate reason to believe, therefore there is no legitimate reason to believe. As I said, it is not a complicated thing.
(April 25, 2010 at 11:14 am)Logikos Wrote:(April 25, 2010 at 10:55 am)Paul the Human Wrote: Furthermore, I contend that belief (actual belief) in anything without a legitimate reason for that belief is irrational and deluded and that it is indicative of either willful ignorance or mental illness or both.
I'm happy enough with "irrational" (provided we can agree on what a legitimate reason is) but not "deluded", and certainly not the final conclusion. If you are deluded, it means that you have had or are having delusions. It does not follow that if you believe something without a legitimate reasons that you have experienced some delusion which has caused you to believe it. You might just think that you have a legitimate reason, or erroneously believe that it is not necessary to have a legitimate reason for such a belief. I think that you do not have a legitimate reason for believing that all theists are delusional; I do not therefore conclude that you must have experienced some delusion that has caused you to believe so.
Delusion is defined as: a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact. Delusions are not necessarily hallucinations, delusions are belief in something that is not real. I contend that god(s) are not real and that believing that they are is a delusion. You know exactly what I am saying and have repeatedly used semantics to cloud my point. I have no more patience for such things.
If you would like to make a point of your own or, perhaps, refute anyone else’s directly, rather than circling them with word games… feel free.
