RE: Intelligent Design: Did you design yourself?
May 30, 2014 at 5:09 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2014 at 5:10 pm by Heywood.)
(May 30, 2014 at 4:58 pm)Stimbo Wrote:(May 30, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: So you agree that it could be true that most lineages of life in the universe are the products of intellect?
No, I said that in the scenario you painted I see no reason that it couldn't be true - but that I'm not going to swallow it or anything about it until the work is done to show it to be true.
Creationists, IDiots and CDesign Proponentsists need to show their work just like real scientists have to.
(May 30, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: I don't know if you realize it yet or not,
This isn't condescending at all.
(May 30, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: but atheists need what creationist have been trying to do....that is have an objective means to differentiate between something that is designed and something that is not designed.
But that's exactly what your side hasn't got. You have no means of discerning design in nature from naturally evolved things. Even the artificially created specimens you've been trumpeting here are known to be designed purely because the designers published papers detailing exactly how they did it.
(May 30, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: Without this objective means....the atheist position is much weaker than the theists. Let me explain.
Can I have a lollipop after the story if I'm a good boy?
(May 30, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: Imagine walking down a beach and finding a watch. You know the watch was designed and produced by an intellect and did not occur naturally. How do you know this? Not because of the precision and complexity of the device(this is where my argument differs from Paley's). You know it was designed and produced by an intellect and not nature because in your experience you've observed that watches are designed and produced by intellects, and you've never seen them occur naturally. You know this watch you found was the product of an intellect even though you aren't privy to the details of it creation. This is how we currently differentiate the designed from the not designed.
Exactly so. Which is why we can't make the same claims for a tree, a bird, or a blade of grass.
(May 30, 2014 at 4:34 pm)Heywood Wrote: What about lineages of life? Well if you only observe lineages of life coming into existence by being designed and produced by intellects, and never observe them coming into existence naturally, you are in a good position to claim that a lineage of life whose creation details you are not privy too was designed and produced by an intellect. A theists is in a strong position to claim that all lineages of biological life are designed and produced by intellects, because the rule we use to determined what is designed and produced by an intellect and what isn't suggests that biological life is like a watch....something exclusively designed and produced by intellects.
And yet again I'm saying that you can claim anything you like and it doesn't amount to a mosquito's fart unless you test the claim against the real world. Do your home work first, then we can have something to talk about instead of warmed-over Paley.
This warmed over Paley only requires 2 things.
1) The observations of intellects creating lineages of life.
2) Never observing lineages of life coming into existence naturally.
As long as those two conditions exist, A theist will be on a stronger footing when he/she claims our lineage is the product of intelligent design then the atheist who claims our lineage is the product of unintelligent natural processes.
And before you claim where is the test.....where is the test made by atheists that shows our lineage is the product of unintelligent natural processes? If we theists have to do tests to support our claims....you atheists need to do them too.
