Determinism vs Free Will

[JoeNoshow]

In that case, I was referring to YHWH. I admit, I made the err of assuming I knew something about other religions which in all honesty I don't. My knowledge of religion pretty well starts and ends with christianity, because that's what I primarily hear about in my geographical location. My apologies.[/quote]
Even among christians... many of them believe that some god has a plan for them. Whilst many would claim that they believe in free will... both cannot be true. ^_^

Interesting, you're right. Although, sadly enough some christians are starting to adopt a different look on god's plan. Rather than god having a perfect plan for everyone some christians are starting to believe that there is a war going on between good and evil. As a result, everything pleasent that happens is the work of god and everything bad that happens is the work of the devil and throughout that struggle they believe they're expected to utilize their free will in order to remain in god's good grace. It's kind of annoying cuzz then even the most horrific catastrophes can be acredited to satin rather than god's negligence. (Even though he's supposed to be all powerful...)

"I cannot speak for the rest of the atheist community, although I am quite sure that most atheists have no capacity to believe a damn thing. It's hard to believe things when you don't have a brain, after all"

Sorry if I've misinterpretted this. Are you claiming that atheists are mindless? That seems like a harsh assertation as it pertains to a sterotypical assumption.

Hardly. ^_^ Every single rock, water molecule, and 'sour cream and onion' chip that I am eating: is an atheist. Of course, i am assuming that rocks, water molecules, and these delicious chips all have zero capacity for thought

Ah, I see what you're getting at. So, do you think humans are capable of being truly atheist?

"Then I am filled with mercy... Very well... I shall not shred the above quote ^_^ (hints: 1: science "proves" nothing, it only provides evidence for belief. 2: We need not prove a thing to come to a scientific conclusion of its fact, else we would have no scientific conclusions. 3: there is no argument for free will... only misunderstandings about what determinism means. 4: lingual pedantry: please don't capitalize 'cause', 'effect', or 'science' excepting grammar.)"

Okay, my mistake. In that case what I meant to say is that science has demonstrated the liklihood of cause and effect. Now, obviously there is an argument for free will, because otherwise people wouldn't believe in it. Perhaps there isn't a scientific argument, but what I'm interested in is people's individual arguments. My apologies about my grammer, I admit that I am not perfect.
That's better ^_^

However... why would belief necessitate a reason? So many theists claim that faith is this reasonless belief... I do not agree with them, of course ^_^ When I said that there is no argument for free will, i was jokingly suggesting that the only people who believe in free will do so intuitively. There are arguments for anything, observe:

Pikachu is sapphire because Portal 2 will be an awesome tiger.

^ However... few arguments (in comparison) are sensible. I know not of any sensible argument for free will

lol, I see. True enough.

"As you have defined 'free will' and 'determinism', they cannot be compatible. By your definition of 'determinism', all things come from prior causes. By your definition of 'free will', will is free of determinism. Hence: incompatibility. You either have incomplete determinism... or you have determined will... and neither of which is what you would appear to imply."

"I do not believe that free will necessarily cause either guilt or self-contempt. Why would this be so? "

Some people fall prey to the notion that they are ultimately in control and can will themselves to do anything. (Free Will). When they discover that they can't will themselves to do anything they blame themselves, because they feel like they're choosing to fail.

I can understand that. But then there are people who never discover this (or at least, have not yet done so), and perhaps more that do otherwise. Hence why it is not necessarily (in my understanding) true of all believers in free will

Yes, true enough. In that case I see it as a harmful potential.

"I actually am precisely the person I want to be... rather I am concerned with the status of my platform."

That's great! You must be quite content.

Hardly. The person I am is at odds with my state of existence, and this drastically reduces my contentment generally.

Interesting. So am I correct in deducing that you're the person you want to be, but you're not neccessarily content with how that person is existing?

"Who is this "we"? Why would there not be people who are always happy, or without fear? How would the lacking of existence of such contradict 'free will'?"

We is in reference to humanity as a whole. The reason I think that free will implies that there would be no unhappy people and no fearful people is because my basic understanding of humans is that we pursue happiness and avoid pain. Feel free to argue that if you wish.

Masochist: pursue both baths at once!

Masochists are a strange anomoly. I wonder how somebody's mind develops that way.

I don't disagree... there are many ways to understand 'free' as it relates to one's will... but I warn you that my will is neither free nor for sale. I don't want you killing me for a free will >_^

lol. Don't worry, I'm too empathetic too kill people. (Plus, not the most physically fit of specimens).

honestly regard free will as silly. I once believe it to be true... and that was silly ^_^ Indeed... I am very silly ^_<

Not really. The nice thing about believing in determinism is that nothing can really be silly or senseless, because one believes that there's a reason for everything that happens.

"I'd rather give my 2 cents to a friend who could turn it into 1000 USD inside of a year... but there is my opinion for you."

Is that comment for the sake of showing your cunning or are you mocking the fact that I'm willing to express my opinion and hear out yours?

No no... it was a joke ^_^ I do that a lot ^_^

Ah, okay. That's the problem with reading shit over the internet. Trying to discern context is a bitch. Come to think of it, it does make sense to give 2 cents to somebody that'll use it for the sake of greater benefit. No sense in wasting 2 cents on somebody who's going to throw it over their shoulder in hopes that supernatural powers will assist them.