Determinism vs Free Will

[Violet]

Interesting, you're right. Although, sadly enough some christians are starting to adopt a different look on god's plan. Rather than god having a perfect plan for everyone some christians are starting to believe that there is a war going on between good and evil. As a result, everything pleasent that happens is the work of god and everything bad that happens is the work of the devil and throughout that struggle they believe they're expected to utilize their free will in order to remain in god's good grace. It's kind of annoying cuzz then even the most horrific catastrophes can be acredited to satin rather than god's negligence. (Even though he's supposed to be all powerful...)

They are only starting to believe this? :S Here I thought that was their age old belief, contested time and time again by each new interpretation But then... they who fight over who owns the cottage whilst it burns down around them are fools

Few interpretations of christianity do I find even slightly worthy of respect... but there may be (are?) a few 'sensible' ones

Ah, I see what you're getting at. So, do you think humans are capable of being truly atheist?

As capable as anything? Each of us is born with no knowledge or understanding of theism, hence we are all born atheist. I consider myself to be human, and I am an atheist.... therefore at least one human is an atheist I also believe my fellow forum goers are human (though I do have my reservations about Dotard, as I believe he might well be God, though I see no real reason to believe this of yet), and many of them say they are atheists and act as such... ergo: I believe that most of the apparent humans on this forum are atheists Does that answer your question? ^_^

Yes, true enough. In that case I see it as a harmful potential.

That is certainly a possibility... but one should never take what is possible to be what is by necessity true ^_<

Interesting. So am I correct in deducing that you're the person you want to be, but you're not neccessarily content with how that person is existing?

I am the person I wish to be... but I do not exist in the proper platform for my person. >_< If I could supplant my consciousness into a platform of an android (one that appears to be a female human, and indeed feels no differently to either me or anyone near me): I would do so instantly. Bonus points if I can still feel pain and pleasure >_^

Of course... a nearly perfectly digitized 'clone' of me would also work... and would give me either the opportunity to be in two places at once, or to choose the form of my existence that I prefer. I'm rather eccentric, no? ^_^

Masochists are a strange anomoly. I wonder how somebody's mind develops that way.

Not so anomalous... it's rather common, to my knowledge... to varying degrees of course. I could make the same comment about the color blue... for it is a strange color. I wonder why it appears to us as it does... why not indeed see it like some other species? ^_<

That a thing happens implies there was a method by which it happens... I don't disagree with understanding how it happens: I disagree with declaring it to be an anomaly. There are no anomalies... only incomplete/incorrect rules, which are broken by the existence of such 'anomalies'. Of course... everything might be supposed to just be chaotic.

lol. Don't worry, I'm too empathetic too kill people. (Plus, not the most physically fit of specimens).

I think I'm rather empathetic... but I would still kill people if I felt the circumstances suited it... myself included One need not be physically fit to kill another... death is rather easy to bring to life in an amusingly diverse number of ways... amusing, for we live through so many 'close calls' each day... where the slightest difference could have brought our death. It's almost enough to make one think there is some sort of benevolent creator out there >_^ Of course... then we realize that many do not avoid these small things, and are killed or maimed anyway ^_^

Isn't life fun? ^_^

Not really. The nice thing about believing in determinism is that nothing can really be silly or senseless, because one believes that there's a reason for everything that happens.

Everything is silly, senseless, absurd, wacky, chaotic, and very hungry. Not even determinists necessarily believe there is a reason for everything that happens... rather that events are determined by what comes prior. Reasons are mental constructs... and what has the mind to do with the movements of the most distant stars? For all we can awaredly accurately prove: there is no order whatsoever, and everything that has ever happened has been a massive coincidence. While things appear to happen according to understood patterns... we see no reason why things should not do so. Hence: most of us (myself included) believe there is a sense of order about the universe... perhaps it is the kind that is created eventually through chaos... or perhaps it is one from a divine creator: I see little reason to believe either is the truth... but what remains is existence, and that's something ^_^

To summarize: even if there was a reason for everything: it isn't necessarily a 'rational' reason >_^

Ah, okay. That's the problem with reading shit over the internet. Trying to discern context is a bitch. Come to think of it, it does make sense to give 2 cents to somebody that'll use it for the sake of greater benefit. No sense in wasting 2 cents on somebody who's going to throw it over their shoulder in hopes that supernatural powers will assist them.

I was going to put a smilie after it, but I ran out of them ^_^ It does indeed make sense to give 2 cents and get 1000 dollars back in return ^_< And yes, he really could do that, as I understand the process. >_^

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According to compatibilism, 'free will' is not about causation at all. Its about responsibility for and ownership of actions. If I say that I did X of my own free will, then what I'm saying is that my actions were due to me (my history, beliefs, desires etc), and were authentically mine. If I do X because someone is pointing a gun at my head, then I'm doing it because of external coercion, and not because of reasons that are mine- thus not of my own free will. By contrast, if I do X because I had a bad childhood (part of my personal history), then I am doing it of my own free will.

It was your 'will' that failed, in the face of coercion. Others would have died... or perhaps the man was bluffing. Others still might have killed him with their own gun. Others would have sat there calmly, taking no notice. Still another might have had external help.

Isn't existence strange, like that?