Determinism vs Free Will

[JoeNoshow]

I am the person I wish to be... but I do not exist in the proper platform for my person. >_< If I could supplant my consciousness into a platform of an android (one that appears to be a female human, and indeed feels no differently to either me or anyone near me): I would do so instantly. Bonus points if I can still feel pain and pleasure >_^

Of course... a nearly perfectly digitized 'clone' of me would also work... and would give me either the opportunity to be in two places at once, or to choose the form of my existence that I prefer. I'm rather eccentric, no? ^_^

So, I take it platform is in reference to your body? Being able to transfer consciousness into a clone would be crazy. Could live forever by having tons of clones scattered about. I dunno if we'll ever get robots to be that advanced, but it certainlty would be neat if we did.

Masochists are a strange anomoly. I wonder how somebody's mind develops that way.

Not so anomalous... it's rather common, to my knowledge... to varying degrees of course. I could make the same comment about the color blue... for it is a strange color. I wonder why it appears to us as it does... why not indeed see it like some other species? ^_<

That a thing happens implies there was a method by which it happens... I don't disagree with understanding how it happens: I disagree with declaring it to be an anomaly. There are no anomalies... only incomplete/incorrect rules, which are broken by the existence of such 'anomalies'. Of course... everything might be supposed to just be chaotic.

I was simply referring to the fact that they aren't overly common, or at least, don't commonly express themselves. I dunno about everything being chaotic. Certainly seems that way from time to time.

lol. Don't worry, I'm too empathetic too kill people. (Plus, not the most physically fit of specimens).

I think I'm rather empathetic... but I would still kill people if I felt the circumstances suited it... myself included One need not be physically fit to kill another... death is rather easy to bring to life in an amusingly diverse number of ways... amusing, for we live through so many 'close calls' each day... where the slightest difference could have brought our death. It's almost enough to make one think there is some sort of benevolent creator out there >_^ Of course... then we realize that many do not avoid these small things, and are killed or maimed anyway ^_^

Isn't life fun? ^_^

Very fun. Although I do all my killing and maiming in video games. That way the towns people don't hunt me down. It is quite fascinating to think about the chain of causes that keep us alive on a day to day basis. It's even more baffling to think about the chain of causes leading up to our birth... if just one couple hadn't met up during the thousands of years of human procreation, we wouldn't be here. Or, if our parents hadn't screwed at exactly the right time the required sperm and egg to create us never would have met up and just like that we never would've been.

Lucky us

Everything is silly, senseless, absurd, wacky, chaotic, and very hungry. Not even determinists necessarily believe there is a reason for everything that happens... rather that events are determined by what comes prior. Reasons are mental constructs... and what has the mind to do with the movements of the most distant stars? For all we can awaredly accurately prove: there is no order whatsoever, and everything that has ever happened has been a massive coincidence. While things appear to happen according to understood patterns... we see no reason why things should not do so. Hence: most of us (myself included) believe there is a sense of order about the universe... perhaps it is the kind that is created eventually through chaos... or perhaps it is one from a divine creator: I see little reason to believe either is the truth... but what remains is existence, and that's something ^_^

To summarize: even if there was a reason for everything: it isn't necessarily a 'rational' reason >_^

I don't really see how anything can be stupid or senseless when there is cause and effect. Why do we call people crazy? Because we don't understand them. Why do we call people stupid? Because we don't understand them. Why does life seem chaotic? Because we don't understand it.

If an isolated cause and effect makes no sense, (ex. You kill somebody simply because they said Hi), it's only senseless because one isn't aware of the chain of causes leading up to that particular cause and effect.

I suppose that I have faith in the idea that life would make sense if we fully understood it. However, omniscience isn't particularily easy to attain.

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Isn't free will, meaning the ability to choose, just one of the many factors that can determine an outcome? Just like rain being determined by water weight in the clouds, which is determined by the prior evaporation of that water from a dew drop which was determined by the plant tissues excreting it, etc, so called free will is determined by things like how each choice in the decision will affect the decider (even to the gun to the head point, but also lesser things like 'that sounds boring so I'm not going to do it'), and that is decided by other things, both physical and mental (personality related), which in turn is determined by a mix (in my opinion) of genes and experience.

Is any will free of all determining sources? I'm not suggesting an extreme like intent or predetermination or higher purpose of course, just that everything that we know and do can be shown to be determined or influenced to some extent by other things and events.

I suppose it depends on how one percieves free will. I look at free will as being like a sphere. The sphere is free to move in any direction it wants, but it's not going to move off of free will alone. There must be a cause for the sphere to move.

Sometimes though I get the impression that people see free will as some magic source of power that allows one to go against all the predetermining factors such as genetics, personality, enviorment and influences. (I like how Saerule put it, "Free will is the idea that the will is independent of all other factors.") People don't act without a motive and it has to be a motive that's stronger than the motives to do other things. We're in control, but our control is controled, which means that we're not really in control. lol.