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The Long and the Short of it.
#63
RE: The Long and the Short of it.
Paul Watson and fr0d0 have both given answers that are common among believers and are valid to us. Watson has said that experience comes from belief and belief from faith and when you start with faith, and you must, there is no evidence. This is the point where freewill comes in and you are either going to accept what you have read and heard or you are not. With acceptance you believe and with out acceptance you do not believe and this is where the road splits the first time and some go on looking for their life in other things and others start there search for who God is. Now at this point there will be those who find they dislike who they percieve God to be (controlling tyrant, uncaring, murderer and ect.) and there faith is lost and there goes their belief. This may take several years or even a decade or so before it happens but for some it will and IMO it's because they never reached out to experience God. So now the road has split again and they also become nonbelievers. Now for those of us who decided to look for God and have an actual relationship with Him come to a point of experiencal belief that is so strong no one can shake us loose from God and this is a promise made by God. He gives us the resolve to carry on no matter what may come into our lives.
fr0d0 stated that the Bible does not try to prove God and it does not. This is where so many make the assumtion they can find proof of His existance, they want facts, evidience or what ever to believe and it's not there. The Bible is written from the view that God has always existed and this is why I believe it's from God if man alone had written the Bible it would be stuffed full of supposed truths, facts and evidience. Mankind would have a need to prove a god and if man had penned the Bible on his own accord that is what you would see. God on the other hand has no desire to prove Himself as a reality just as you and I (or at least me) find no need to prove our reality. Like God we want people to know who we are and we know that experience is the best way for another to learn who we are. Like fr0d0 and Watson said this is why we have the Bible to guide us into that experience with God.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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Messages In This Thread
The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 15, 2010 at 10:12 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 15, 2010 at 11:25 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 15, 2010 at 11:32 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 15, 2010 at 11:50 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by bozo - May 15, 2010 at 2:12 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by downbeatplumb - May 15, 2010 at 3:10 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Welsh cake - May 15, 2010 at 3:13 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 15, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Shell B - May 15, 2010 at 4:54 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Dotard - May 15, 2010 at 5:15 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 15, 2010 at 5:24 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Dotard - May 15, 2010 at 5:28 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Zen Badger - May 15, 2010 at 8:18 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 15, 2010 at 8:21 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Shell B - May 15, 2010 at 8:24 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Zen Badger - May 15, 2010 at 8:32 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by KichigaiNeko - May 15, 2010 at 10:47 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 15, 2010 at 10:58 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by KichigaiNeko - May 15, 2010 at 11:06 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by padraic - May 15, 2010 at 11:56 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 12:44 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godschild - May 16, 2010 at 12:58 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 16, 2010 at 1:34 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by KichigaiNeko - May 16, 2010 at 2:39 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tackattack - May 16, 2010 at 4:09 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Welsh cake - May 16, 2010 at 6:22 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 10:47 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2010 at 11:03 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by downbeatplumb - May 16, 2010 at 12:12 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by SleepingDemon - May 16, 2010 at 11:12 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 11:18 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2010 at 12:17 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 12:35 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by John_S3V - May 16, 2010 at 12:09 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2010 at 1:02 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 1:33 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2010 at 3:17 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 16, 2010 at 1:17 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2010 at 1:21 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 16, 2010 at 1:32 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 1:53 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 2:00 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 2:10 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Ace Otana - May 16, 2010 at 2:16 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 2:16 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 2:24 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 2:31 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 2:37 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 2:50 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 3:37 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 3:40 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 3:42 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 4:00 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 4:35 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 4:37 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2010 at 4:40 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 4:45 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 16, 2010 at 5:14 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 4:49 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 16, 2010 at 4:52 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 4:58 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godschild - May 16, 2010 at 6:58 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 16, 2010 at 7:44 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 8:41 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 16, 2010 at 9:49 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by padraic - May 16, 2010 at 9:32 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 17, 2010 at 7:31 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 9:54 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 16, 2010 at 9:58 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 10:01 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 16, 2010 at 10:03 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 16, 2010 at 10:09 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 17, 2010 at 1:15 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 1:18 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 17, 2010 at 1:20 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 1:22 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 17, 2010 at 1:34 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 1:37 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Kelisha888 - May 17, 2010 at 1:46 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 1:57 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 17, 2010 at 2:42 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 2:55 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 17, 2010 at 3:21 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 3:36 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 17, 2010 at 9:55 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 17, 2010 at 8:22 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godschild - May 17, 2010 at 11:16 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by John_S3V - May 17, 2010 at 10:24 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 17, 2010 at 10:58 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by John_S3V - May 17, 2010 at 12:11 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 11:17 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 17, 2010 at 11:31 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 11:33 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 17, 2010 at 12:14 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 17, 2010 at 12:27 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by John_S3V - May 17, 2010 at 12:34 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 17, 2010 at 8:26 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - May 17, 2010 at 8:23 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by padraic - May 17, 2010 at 11:30 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 17, 2010 at 11:38 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Caecilian - May 18, 2010 at 3:44 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tackattack - May 18, 2010 at 12:47 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by padraic - May 18, 2010 at 3:18 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - May 18, 2010 at 9:12 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 12:01 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 18, 2010 at 3:12 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 18, 2010 at 12:36 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 18, 2010 at 3:34 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 18, 2010 at 4:15 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by bozo - May 18, 2010 at 4:11 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 18, 2010 at 6:31 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Minimalist - May 18, 2010 at 8:19 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 19, 2010 at 4:44 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - May 19, 2010 at 9:16 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by fr0d0 - May 19, 2010 at 1:27 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 6:36 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 18, 2010 at 6:40 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 6:55 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - May 18, 2010 at 7:02 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Caecilian - May 18, 2010 at 7:23 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 7:06 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 7:28 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Caecilian - May 18, 2010 at 7:38 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 7:58 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 8:24 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by padraic - May 18, 2010 at 8:34 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Watson - May 18, 2010 at 8:37 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by padraic - May 18, 2010 at 8:53 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tackattack - May 19, 2010 at 10:59 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - May 19, 2010 at 11:02 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tackattack - May 19, 2010 at 11:04 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - May 19, 2010 at 1:33 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tackattack - May 20, 2010 at 5:36 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godhead - July 23, 2010 at 7:56 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Tiberius - July 23, 2010 at 8:41 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - July 23, 2010 at 10:04 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Edwardo Piet - July 23, 2010 at 1:01 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Edwardo Piet - July 23, 2010 at 8:12 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - July 23, 2010 at 8:31 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godhead - July 23, 2010 at 8:53 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - July 23, 2010 at 9:00 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godhead - July 23, 2010 at 9:40 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Paul the Human - July 23, 2010 at 9:47 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godhead - July 23, 2010 at 12:51 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - July 23, 2010 at 1:22 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godhead - July 23, 2010 at 4:38 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Edwardo Piet - July 23, 2010 at 4:42 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by tavarish - July 23, 2010 at 9:31 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Godhead - July 23, 2010 at 9:33 pm
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Edwardo Piet - July 26, 2010 at 10:36 am
RE: The Long and the Short of it. - by Ace Otana - July 26, 2010 at 6:19 pm

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