RE: Why I'm identifying as agnostic...
July 18, 2014 at 3:59 am
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2014 at 4:03 am by Whateverist.)
(July 18, 2014 at 1:28 am)Aractus Wrote:(July 17, 2014 at 6:57 am)whateverist Wrote: I assume you still lean toward theism in your agnosticism.No, agnostic is another word for athiest (as you well know).
Honestly, I don't think so. It is in my case. It may or may not be in yours, but it sounds like it is. Mazel tov?
(July 18, 2014 at 1:28 am)Aractus Wrote:Quote:Personally, I think I have internalized what Jesus taught to some degree.
It's interesting you should say that because in recent debates with Christians I can't ever get them to agree upon what Jesus taught. For instance - Jesus never teaches not to obey the whole of the OT law, ever, but what he does teach is that the "extra layers" imposed by the Pharisees is wrong. For instance the OT law God gives says do not work on the Sabbath - the Pharisees decided to define "work" far more strictly including telling Jews how far they could walk before breaking the Sabbath. The Pharisees taught "love thy neighbour; and hate thy enemy" and Jesus taught that was wrong (in this case to a lawyer with the parable of the Good Samaritan).
The part that most Christians do not want to think about is that Jesus is teaching Leviticus 19 to the letter in that passage in Luke 10, yet Leviticus 20 says "If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." What happened in the early church is that Paul and Matthew and James and the other early leaders decided to abandon those laws, and that's recorded in the book of Acts. But that happens after Jesus has come and gone. That's essentially the same thing as what the Pharisees did by imposing their "interpretations" of the OT law, and when you look at it that way Christianity doesn't hold together - the early church leaders went ahead and did exactly what Jesus told the Pharisees off for doing!
Hmm, you know a lot more about the bible than I ever did. I don't really know what it says, but I do agree that it is other people's motivated selection of stories attributed to Jesus. What I think I've internalized is just the desire to understand everyone's perspective as somewhat inevitable given their life experience. Giving them the benefit of the doubt so far as possible. Now I often enough do not succeed but I don't mind admitting I admire people who give respect to others first, not just as pay back. But I don't think of Jesus as a savior or lord or sacrifice or any of that stuff.
When Jesus says I am the way, he doesn't (by my interpretation, obviously) mean follow my directions. He means rather, follow my example. He isn't promising to pull strings for you. He is just saying god is within, and it is in some manner or other. Unfortunately "god" has become corrupted with so much baggage like creator, moral judge and all that. I don't think Jesus had in mind any place later, it was always about right now. The kingdom is within and it sort of is but in the end it all comes down to chopping wood and hauling water and a thousand other mundane life tasks. Transcendence doesn't come in technicolor. It's a simple thing.