A discussion around family table.

[tackattack]

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2-Your using a very weak version of the POE by peppering it with ad hominem attacks. I can see you don't truly wish this conversation to go anywhere.

They are not ad hominem attacks on your god, since his alleged behaviours and rules are what are being discussed. Those are my opinions of that.

3- You are incorrect in your statement " You are believing something because you have decided to, rather than as a result of the reality being perceived." I am choosing to believe in something with subjective experience, logic, reason and commited trust. It is not despite reality, as much as you would like it to be.

You were unable to perceive your god until you first made yourself believe in him. That's the opposite order of true belief. With true belief, the acknowledgement of existence comes at or after the moments of perception.

4- I have linked yoou to the "good parts" of the Bible that even the agnostic atheists at the SAG to the Bible site will ackowledge. Your continuous refusal to even acknowledge them will bring this conversation to a swift close, which appears to be what you desire.

You linked to a bunch of typical bible crap. I don't care if other people think they're some super good parts of it. Let's start at the bottom of your links, going up, since the first one had a ton of quotes, all of which sucked in the goodness-that-outweighs-the-shit dept.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=KJV
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Ok, so that makes all the killing and torture a-ok? Huh? WTF?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=KJV
"Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name."
And this fixes what exactly? How is this cancelling out the shitty stuff?

"Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:"
What benefits? Does thinking nicey nicey thoughts about god stop the unjust killing?

"Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;"
Who cares if god feels forgiveness, he could just tell people to not do the iniquities he ordered them to do in the first place. And we know he doesn't heal all thy diseases, so why quote this lie? We know full well that your god does not make up for all his killing and torture by curing all the diseases (that he alse caused if we are to believe that he made everything).

"Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;"
Again, god saying that he is good, that he redeems, loves you and is tenderly merciful. Ahhh, that's so sweet. Now, where is the part where he says, "Remember how I told you to kill for me, and love me and stuff? Never mind."

"Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's."
I don't see your god feeding the world. And I don't see anyone getting their youth renewed. What a liar your god is!

Anyways, it's obvious why that list is not at all what I was looking for. I only wrote the above sample ones because you claimed I was avoiding it. So, once again, where is the good stuff in the bible? The stuff that is good, so profound and awesome, that it completely makes the bad shit pale in comparison or even simply cancelled out?

Can you find me anything at all that is really good in that book? Rules about being fair in one's business dealings, while on the nice side of neutral, just aren't good enough to make the book a nice one. And don't give me vague references to being just, or righteous, or lawful etc, since we know the horrible rules that the bible considers to be just and right and lawful, etc.

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2- you are using emotive language, and unnecessary adjectives to strengthen your point which could be simply put "I think God is stupid" And then you take that obvious chip on your shoulder and chuck it at me constantly. I don't think I'm going to address this point anymore either.

3-Wrong. How many times have I said that perception precedes defintion, which precedes acknowledgement of existence, which precedes understanding. I think I'm done with this point too.

4- Here's 13 from just exodus since you have a hard time reading, I'll add the disclaimer that you're never going to get a list of good that outwieghs your skewed, cherry picked version of it. This is the last time I'm answering this question.

Honor thy father and thy mother." 20:12
"Thou shalt not kill." 20:13
"Thou shalt not commit adultery." 20:14
"Thou shalt not steal." 20:15
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." 20:16
Be kind to strangers, widows, and fatherless children. 22:21-22
Value the truth; don't lie. 23:1
Don't do what everyone else does, if what they do is wrong. 23:2
Be kind to your enemies. Do good to those who hate you. 23:4-5
Treat the poor fairly. 23:6
Be honest. Don't kill the innocent. 23:7
Don't mistreat strangers. 23:9
Every seventh year the Israelites were to leave their fields unharvested, so that the poor would have something to eat. 23:11
Here's a lnk for the rest http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html