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The Hayter-Braeloch Scale
#32
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale
(June 1, 2010 at 6:15 pm)Tiberius Wrote:


That, at least, is what Descartes thought. IIrc, Kirkegaard argued that the whole exercise presupposed the 'I', thus presupposed that 'I' existed, and was therefore logically trivial. It doesn't confirm anything- it just says that if you exist then you exist.

Anyway, to get back to the original question. It seems to me that you're conflating 2 seperate (but related) issues here. They are:

1. Strength of belief, i.e. certainty.
and
2. Finding one or more theist or atheist arguments convincing.

The 2 don't have to go together. Many theists, maybe most theists, don't know any of the arguments anyway. Their belief is primarily emotional rather than intellectual. If you were to ask one of those believers 'are there conclusive arguments for the existence of god?' they might answer 'I don't know, and I don't even care, I just know that god exists'.

Similarly, a more intellectual theist might accept the ontological argument as 100% intellectually compelling, yet still have deep and distressing doubts about god's existence. Or not find any of the theist arguments compelling at all, and yet still be absolutely certain of the reality of god.

Less likely, but still possible, is someone finding one or more of the theist arguments completely compelling, but still not accepting theism on an intuitive/ emotional level.

In other words: believing that there are conclusive ways of establishing god's existence is not the same as having faith.
He who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.
Mikhail Bakunin

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Messages In This Thread
The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 8:15 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by mem - June 1, 2010 at 8:20 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 8:21 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by leo-rcc - June 1, 2010 at 8:39 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 9:24 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 1, 2010 at 4:37 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 6:15 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 1, 2010 at 6:33 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Paul the Human - June 1, 2010 at 6:39 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 1, 2010 at 6:41 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 1, 2010 at 7:00 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Paul the Human - June 1, 2010 at 9:31 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 1, 2010 at 1:06 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Autumnlicious - June 1, 2010 at 1:14 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by tavarish - June 1, 2010 at 1:22 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 1:22 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Paul the Human - June 1, 2010 at 1:52 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by downbeatplumb - June 1, 2010 at 2:58 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 1, 2010 at 2:23 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by bozo - June 1, 2010 at 2:31 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by darkwolf176 - June 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 2:54 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 1, 2010 at 3:16 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 3:27 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Welsh cake - June 1, 2010 at 3:53 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Welsh cake - June 1, 2010 at 4:53 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 1, 2010 at 6:12 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Paul the Human - June 1, 2010 at 6:44 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 1, 2010 at 6:47 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Paul the Human - June 1, 2010 at 6:49 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 1, 2010 at 6:53 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 1, 2010 at 7:04 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 1, 2010 at 7:20 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 2, 2010 at 2:35 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Scented Nectar - June 1, 2010 at 7:13 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Rev. Rye - June 1, 2010 at 7:32 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by padraic - June 1, 2010 at 8:25 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by fr0d0 - June 1, 2010 at 8:38 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Dotard - June 1, 2010 at 11:37 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Purple Rabbit - June 2, 2010 at 3:39 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 2, 2010 at 7:19 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 2, 2010 at 10:02 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Purple Rabbit - June 2, 2010 at 10:41 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by KichigaiNeko - June 2, 2010 at 6:02 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 2, 2010 at 6:10 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by KichigaiNeko - June 2, 2010 at 6:12 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 2, 2010 at 6:18 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by KichigaiNeko - June 2, 2010 at 6:22 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 2, 2010 at 6:29 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by KichigaiNeko - June 2, 2010 at 6:41 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 2, 2010 at 6:47 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Purple Rabbit - June 2, 2010 at 9:11 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by SleepingDemon - June 2, 2010 at 10:53 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by tavarish - June 2, 2010 at 11:33 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Edwardo Piet - June 12, 2010 at 9:51 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 2, 2010 at 11:51 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Welsh cake - June 3, 2010 at 3:19 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Dotard - June 3, 2010 at 10:13 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by leo-rcc - June 4, 2010 at 5:06 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 4, 2010 at 6:10 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by KichigaiNeko - June 4, 2010 at 8:55 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Dotard - June 5, 2010 at 1:46 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 4, 2010 at 10:20 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 4, 2010 at 1:03 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 5, 2010 at 7:40 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Caecilian - June 5, 2010 at 8:29 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by remza - June 4, 2010 at 10:51 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 4, 2010 at 11:02 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Violet - June 4, 2010 at 2:11 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by fr0d0 - June 4, 2010 at 12:22 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by tavarish - June 4, 2010 at 12:29 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by fr0d0 - June 4, 2010 at 12:43 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by ib.me.ub - June 4, 2010 at 3:34 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Purple Rabbit - June 5, 2010 at 8:09 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 5, 2010 at 8:45 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Purple Rabbit - June 5, 2010 at 9:09 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Tiberius - June 5, 2010 at 9:33 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Purple Rabbit - June 5, 2010 at 9:51 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Edwardo Piet - June 5, 2010 at 1:16 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by lrh9 - June 11, 2010 at 4:23 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by SavageNerdz - April 7, 2012 at 3:05 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by King_Charles - April 16, 2012 at 8:35 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Adjusted Sanity - April 16, 2012 at 6:52 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Neo-Scholastic - April 16, 2012 at 9:55 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Adjusted Sanity - April 16, 2012 at 10:43 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Anomalocaris - April 16, 2012 at 10:56 pm
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Jackalope - April 17, 2012 at 1:24 am
RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale - by Reforged - April 17, 2012 at 1:48 am

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