RE: The Hayter-Braeloch Scale
June 3, 2010 at 3:19 pm
(This post was last modified: June 3, 2010 at 3:21 pm by Welsh cake.)
(June 1, 2010 at 6:12 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Apatheists are by definition agnostic in the first place, so your first objection is flawed. To illustrate, if we suppose the contrary (i.e. that you can have gnostic apatheist) then such apatheists hold that the existence (or non-existence) of gods can be conclusively established, then these people must have either a belief or non-belief in God, and are therefore either Gnostic theists or Gnostic atheists.Apatheism describes the manner of acting towards a belief OR lack of a belief in a god or gods, its an attitude towards belief in concept for a deity, not a position in of itself as such. Apatheism is not Agnosticism, although it is possible to be either a pragmatic atheist, a pragmatic atheist or a pragmatic agnostic. Again, these aren't my definitions:
So then we are left with what you term "apatheist theists" and "apatheist atheists". However, these are both covered in our description of apatheism (i.e. "they sometimes 'believe' and other times 'not believe'"). The point of apatheism is to be undecided, so I reject the labels of "apatheist theist" and "apatheist atheist" as actual labels, since they show a level of decision that is simply not there.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/apatheism.htm
Agnosticism is the separate issue of what is knowable, not what we believe, so for the sake of argument let's not focus on that on the scale for now. Basically Adrian, from what we've gathered so far if someone asks you an honest question "Does God exist?" there are a limited number of responses that determine what you are with regards to the concept.
If you answer "Yes", you're a theist.
If you answer "No", you're an atheist.
If you answer "I don't know" and/or "I don't really care", then you're an apatheist.
And finally, if you answer "Define God", you're ignostic.