RE: Seeking
September 1, 2014 at 12:15 am
(This post was last modified: September 1, 2014 at 12:23 am by tjakey.)
Dirch, you are a bit lost yourself, aren't you. There are thousands upon thousands of people who are ex-Christians. People whose faith was at least as informed and as dear to them as you think yours is to you, and who believed in the same god you do. Yet you are going to dismiss their experience out of hand, feigning to understand some deep thing about god that they never grasped, that you have the un-corrupted view. Hardly the attitude of a humble person. In fact it is the utmost arrogance to presume that no one could discover that faith in your god was a mistake unless they did not actually believe in your god in the first place.
I will grant that the very idea must be worrisome to you, and that you think there must be a way to explain it without casting doubt on your god's existence. But there isn't. Honest, once deeply faithful people, with no ax to grind and no hard feelings toward anyone, with no other desire than to follow the truth where ever it may lead, have examined their faith in the Christian god and found it misplaced. They asked but the answers where not what they expected. They sought and found an unsuspected truth. They knocked, but when the door opened it led them out of your church and away from your god.
And that was the only point I was making. One clearly beyond the grasp of anyone so caught up in faith that they make a claim as foolish as "belief based in proof". If there was proof, belief would not be required. In fact, it would not even be possible. You can know a thing. You can believe a thing. But you cannot, in honesty, do both at the same time in regard to the same thing.
And I am going to guess that is beyond you as well.
By the way, the reference to Noah was a kind of inside joke for those who know that the story of Noah is just that, a story. Not true, not even good allegory, just one bit of mythology in an entire religion of mythology. It was like suggesting that someone who believed the earth was flat might also believe that the sun orbits the planet. You should be embarrassed that it went right over your head, that you were actually dumb enough to call it a "straw man" argument.
But you won't be.
Someday though, you might. For here is something you can know with absolute assurance. People more Christian than you, more knowledgeable, more studied, more faithful, more loving, more Christlike, with true humility, showing more of the fruits of the spirit, better thinkers, and with more courage than you can possibly imagine, are Christians no longer.
There is a small chance that you might join them someday. After all, you are hanging out in this forum and attempting to defend your faith.
I will grant that the very idea must be worrisome to you, and that you think there must be a way to explain it without casting doubt on your god's existence. But there isn't. Honest, once deeply faithful people, with no ax to grind and no hard feelings toward anyone, with no other desire than to follow the truth where ever it may lead, have examined their faith in the Christian god and found it misplaced. They asked but the answers where not what they expected. They sought and found an unsuspected truth. They knocked, but when the door opened it led them out of your church and away from your god.
And that was the only point I was making. One clearly beyond the grasp of anyone so caught up in faith that they make a claim as foolish as "belief based in proof". If there was proof, belief would not be required. In fact, it would not even be possible. You can know a thing. You can believe a thing. But you cannot, in honesty, do both at the same time in regard to the same thing.
And I am going to guess that is beyond you as well.
By the way, the reference to Noah was a kind of inside joke for those who know that the story of Noah is just that, a story. Not true, not even good allegory, just one bit of mythology in an entire religion of mythology. It was like suggesting that someone who believed the earth was flat might also believe that the sun orbits the planet. You should be embarrassed that it went right over your head, that you were actually dumb enough to call it a "straw man" argument.
But you won't be.
Someday though, you might. For here is something you can know with absolute assurance. People more Christian than you, more knowledgeable, more studied, more faithful, more loving, more Christlike, with true humility, showing more of the fruits of the spirit, better thinkers, and with more courage than you can possibly imagine, are Christians no longer.
There is a small chance that you might join them someday. After all, you are hanging out in this forum and attempting to defend your faith.
