Alcoholism

[Pippy]

Hey,

Not[e?] the first explanation refers to psychology. How a child can "inherit" his father's abusive nature. Still not genetic.

Please explain how inherit can be anything but genetic unless you mean inheritance as a poetic allegory to include all the things the parent teaches the child after birth. Such as 'I inherited my fathers hatred for Republican's". It is an apt allegory, but if we are talking about textbook hereditary nature, I am almost certain the only thing passed at that level is genetics. Heredity can be nothing other than genetic. If you say it is in fact not genetic, but may be hereditary, I am at a loss as to what you mean.

It's really quite simple. Hereditary doesn't JUST refer to genetics. Genetics is a subset. That's the difference.

For a fourth time, if I am not mistaken (this is an invitation to show proof or rebut or something) for something to be hereditary it absolutely has to be genetic. It is quite simple, but not very real it seems. If heredity does not refer to just genetics, what else is inherited that is itself not genetic? Please give me one example, I am dumbfounded.

To make it simple, there can be hereditary factors that contribute to alcoholism, but I don't think there's an "alcoholism" gene in say

Okay, I hear you. Are the factors that can contribute to alcoholism that may be hereditary such things as weak will, risk taking behavior, poor causal judgment, depression, plain lack of intelligence? Then we are closer to agreeing than before. Are all of those loose traits not genetic in their root? Is any part of us not genetic at root? If they are to be inherited from one of my parents chromosomes, can they at that point be anything other than genetic at their base? Can we name these traits that are genetic and inherited Alcoholism if we wish? There may not be one alcoholism gene, I agree, it may be a whole symphony of unfortunate active genes. It, as all mental illness, is a very gray thing. Very blurry. But real. It's realness is in the pragmatics of being able to name a mental illness only for the sake of naming it.

I appreciate you thoughts on the subject, and did not mean to laugh too hard at your right to hate AA if you like. Other than the whole heredity and genetics separate thing, I hear you. Thank you.

Kudos to the rest of the post Pippy

Hey Dotard, I really appreciate your understanding. I agree that it can come across as 'i want diminished responsibility' when some people refer to alcoholism. I can't overstate that I am not in that crowd. Same as belief in the belief in god thing, I disagree with a lot of those people too. I think alcoholism is real, but I don't want to wear it on my sleeve. Naming it helps us fight it. I hope you don't think I'm whining about it, I just can't sit here and watch people agree that it is not real.

Thanks man.

Pippy, according to your logic I'd be totally screwed.

Thanks for making the thread Kawaii, I didn't mean to take it over so bad. I hear that you think it is not a legitimate disease, and appreciate that. You sound like you have had enough experience with it to make up your own mind. I think it does mean that it might be easier for someone like me to get addicted and stay addicted than someone like you, or some third party even. We are allowed to disagree though, that's what I love about the world. Differences. Thanks again

Again with the nature nurture dichotomy.

Hey Padraic, good to see you again. I know, it seems a common denominator, eh?

Recovering from alcoholism has been hard for me.

I appreciate that you are recovered, it makes me smile. Life itself is a vicious struggle, and the philosophies underlying AA are very valid. One day at a time, that is gold.

I too don't like people using the disease concept as an excuse. I use it as an empowerment, but the line is thin, isn't it. Thanks.

I think alcoholism is as real a disease as Depression, Manic Depression, Schizophrenia, Dissociative Identity, and any other loosely defined, un-locatable on an Xray as of yet, "diseases".

Thanks again all,
-Pip