(September 10, 2014 at 10:32 am)Clueless Morgan Wrote: The problem is that by accepting the conclusion of the initial argument you're letting this person get away with murder. You can't simply assert that something that appears designed requires a designer, therefore the designer necessarily exists. You have to demonstrate that something with the appearance of design necessitates a designer, which we have shown, scientifically, is not the case.
Before you do that, you also have to establish how you detect that something appears designed, which is curiously absent, or fallaciously stated in intelligent design arguments. The lazy ID proponent will claim that X just looks designed and so it is, which begs the question because it could equally be true that now there are two categories, one for designed-looking things that are designed and one for those that are natural. A more competent ID-er will argue that complexity equals design, but that too just begs the question as well as providing the unjustified assertion that nothing complex can be natural. Not to mention, in a world where we know evolution happens, complexity is actually the hallmark of circuity, of processes doubling back on themselves to reach their eventual function. In the world we live in simplicity would be the mark of design, as it would demonstrate things evolving greater functionality with fewer "steps" than it should be possible to do so, and even that is an argument from ignorance when you get right down to it.
The truth is, anyone arguing for ID has no way to detect design at all, because they have no point of contrast. In an intelligently designed world everything was designed, and they have no natural occurrences with which to make comparisons. If you believe everything to be designed, how do you pick out any individual thing to be designed specifically? What are the markers of design in a world like that? It can't be complexity or simplicity, as they believe everything, simple or complex, to be intelligently designed.
It's a self refuting position, really.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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