RE: God is love. God is just. God is merciful.
October 6, 2014 at 11:38 am
(This post was last modified: October 6, 2014 at 11:43 am by genkaus.)
(October 6, 2014 at 11:05 am)alpha male Wrote: Yes, I noted that those things are fundamental human needs myself.
And your reasoning there contradicts your assertion that "slavery and prison disprove liberty as a fundamental need".
(October 6, 2014 at 11:05 am)alpha male Wrote: No, it's not the same at all. Withhold air, water or food long enough and the person dies. Withhold liberty, and the person continues to live.
Actually, a person can survive without food and water as well - put him in a coma and hook him up to an IV drip.
(October 6, 2014 at 11:05 am)alpha male Wrote: How so, and which are you using?
Human life requires more than basic animal survival.
(October 6, 2014 at 11:05 am)alpha male Wrote: OK, what is the purpose of those rights?
Already answered.
Maybe it would be easier if you'd use specific laws as requested.
(October 6, 2014 at 11:05 am)alpha male Wrote: How do you prove that this framework is the objectively correct one to use? As I said earlier, "Even if you use some objective framework, the choice of that framework over others was ultimately subjective."
Because it maximizes the possibility of fulfillment of those needs.
(October 6, 2014 at 11:12 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Do you? I really, really doubt that.
Why, where do you live that you cannot shout profanities in the middle of the street?
(October 6, 2014 at 11:12 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: But that's sort of the point. We're disagreeing about it. That means it's not objective.
Wrong. Like I said before, disagreement is not a basis to judge the objectivity of a thing. We can disagree about the length of the board - doesn't mean its length is subjective.
(October 6, 2014 at 11:12 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: Besides which liberty is not a law, it's a principle. All societies curb freedom. You don't have freedom to not pay taxes, or to steal from people, or to cross borders without documents.
I didn't cite liberty as a law - I cited it as the basis for objective laws. And your arguments about "curbing freedom" betrays a limited understanding of the principle. Don't equate the concept of liberty with "absolute, unrestricted freedom to do anything you want".
(October 6, 2014 at 11:12 am)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: The things in that "research" Are not objective needs. They are nice things to have in that persons opinion.
According to his research, those things are ontological human needs, i.e. "stemming from the condition of being human". Which makes them objective.
