Ministers Threatened with Jail/Fines For Refusing to Officiate at Gay Weddings

[Esquilax]

First amendment rights do not go away because a person engages in business. The claim that since these ministers are in the marriage business they are no longer protected under by the First Amendment is just wishful thinking up a justification to deny someone's whose behavior you do not like....their First Amendment rights. Jenny A did an awesome job of explaining that the First Amendment has no clause which excludes people from being protected if they are engaged in for profit business. If this argument is brought up again, just expect me to ignore it. I have examined it thoroughly and reject it. You're just going to have to accept that.

Actually, your first amendment rights are substantially modulated when you are employing them in a business context. For example, false advertising laws technically curtail your first amendment right to free speech, but they still exist for the purpose that all laws do; to correct the behavior of people for the good of society. If you're going to say something, at least be accurate about it.

Additionally, can you tell me what, exactly, in the first amendment is being violated here? Where is the religious commandment, in any branch of christianity, that denies gay people the right to marry? I'll answer for you: there isn't any. The bible is rather more... violent, in what it says one should do with gays, but never once does it forbid them to marry. The only way you can possibly suggest that non discrimination laws actually violate the first amendment, in this case, is to suggest that religious beliefs extend beyond the bounds of what the actual religion in question teaches, which renders that entire segment of the amendment meaningless. At that point, you're just talking about beliefs in general.

Second, the reason the First Amendment does not protect a person from murdering another on religious grounds is that the First Amendment does not protect you from violating laws that apply to everyone. Nobody or no group is exempted from being prosecuted for murder. However ministers preforming church weddings are exempted from the law that prohibits everyone else from discriminating. The anti discrimination law does not apply to everyone so it doesn't necessarily trump the First amendment.

They are not acting as a church, so they are not exempted from laws that apply to churches. Again, all this is is you trying to ensure that your own religion gets to decide when the laws apply to it, and when they don't.

Last, there must be a compelling government interest. A compelling government interest is not forcing people to behave in a way you think they should behave. You can argue that is a government interest make sure gay couples are not disenfranchised. However the Hitching Post policy of not preforming gay weddings is not substantially disenfranchising gay couples since they can walk a mere 400' and have the county clerk or judge marry them.

Since when have laws ever had to be that specific? Are you seriously expecting the government to qualify it that harshly? "You can't discriminate against gays, unless there is another outlet of an identical service or product that won't, within X distance"?

The whole point of discrimination laws is to make it so people can't use exceptions to make things more difficult for others.