Atheism is unreasonable

[Jenny A]

Glad it's fine, because I can't help it. It is a ridiculous belief in many ways.

Many? Give me one.

Sure: the only way to forgive peoples' sins is to kill someone innocent; three beings are both separate and one at the same time; a god capable of creating the universe exists; sacrifice of a son a good thing; there is life after death; sacrificing a son is a real sacrifice if you can and do just bring him back to life; eternal hell is a just punishment for anything.

I just love it when people tell me what I have to believe.

If the shoe fits.

It doesn't. I don't believe this: "billions of years ago before humanity, dead matter was floating around in space...and for whatever reason, suddenly, this dead matter "came to life". Not only did it come to life, but it came to life and began thinking, talking, and having sex.

First of all, not believing that a god who always existed brought life into being by magic is not the same as believing that anyone knows how life came about.

What are you talking about, Jenny? If the God hypothesis is out of the equation, then it is quite obvious that the only game left in town is abiogenesis.

It isn't as if there are a million different possibilities and naturalism and supernaturalism is just two of the million possibilities. No. Those are the only two games in town.

Yes, but there are three possible beliefs: 1) it was supernatural; 2) it was natural; 3) I don't know.

And life coming out of dead matter is no more unbelievable, in fact less so than either and god said it and puff it happened, or god made us out of clay (dead matter).

I am speaking of which is more plausible. I can conceive an omnipotent being being able to create life out of nonliving material. I cannot conceive of dead matter floating in space for past eternity and suddenly coming to life. If this did in fact happen, you should be able to demonstrate this in a lab, but you can't, which gives me the implication that nature, as mindless and blind as it is, was able to do something billions of years ago that intelligent human beings isn't able to do, and that is create life from non-life, and consciousness from unconsciousness.

The fact that we can't demonstrate something now, doesn't mean it didn't happen. What you are arguing is that if we don't know it must be god. The funny thing about that is that science keeps usurping that position with one thing after another from the age of the earth, how it formed, how man evolved and so on.

Magic on the other hand is never a plausible solution. So far magic has never been demonstrated with scientific rigor.

Secondly, I know of no scientific hypotheses for the origins of life that involves matter drifting around in space suddenly springing to life

So Jenny, before life and earth originated, are you saying that preexisting matter wasn't floating around in space?? Wow. Ok, so what was going on then?

, let alone immediately thinking, talking, and having sex.

Keyword: Immediately. Notice the emphasis placed on that word, because Jenny would have people believe that it happened over the course of millions of years, right? With so much time, anything could have happened, right?

There's a summary here of the current theories about how very simple life may have begun. Wikipedia: Abiogenesis There's a better and broader discussion here: Talk Origins: Abiogenesis

You can theorize all you like...until you can demonstrate it...until it is demonstrated by tests/repeated experiment, then it is just a theory. [/Quote]

And there are only natural theories proves that the explanation must be supernatural? Hardly. There's nothing supernatural proven at all about anything.

Only religions posit instant complex life complete with language and sex. The explanations vary from god said, fashioning out of clay or water, being shit out by god, or carved out of wood. Think about it. It's all magic.

Magic? Consciousness from unconsciousness is worse than magic, because on your view, there isn't even a magician (God), things are just happening for no scientific reasoning whatsoever. "Voodoo science" is what it is.

Prove a god, any god, or anything supernatural and we'll talk.

There always was a being capable of making things spring into existence merely by saying "let there be. . ." Now that's crazy. Think about it.

But it is conceivable, though. Life from nonlife isn't naturally conceivable. I can conceive of it happening, just not naturally. Life from nonlife can not be described by natural law, nor can consciousness from unconsciousness.

Only if by conceivable you mean it can be imagined. But it's just as easy to imagine life just popping into existence out of matter. In other words the fact that you can or can't image a thing has nothing to do with whether it happened.

Whether life from non life will ever be demonstrated has yet to be seen. But that it hasn't yet, or even never will be, in no way proves the explanation is supernatural.

But you believe that the is an uncreated sentient being that can create life by just saying let there be life? Now that's faith.

A being that exists necessarily and therefore was not a produce of something that preceded it, yes.

Show god necessarily exists and that sentence will make sense. Right now it's nonsense.