Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 27, 2025, 9:20 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Suicide: An Ethical Delimna
#58
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna
(December 14, 2014 at 11:50 am)robvalue Wrote: Why would you ignore the suffering of the would-be-suicider? How is that a balanced evaluation? Isn't that expecting them to be a martyr of sorts, as a matter of course?
When making ethical considerations, one doesn't normally balance one's own needs against a stranger's. I wouldn't, for example, decide that I need money more than Mr. Smith does, and that it is therefore ethical for me to steal his money. Even if I were hungry, it wouldn't really be ethical for me to steal from Mr. Smith, unless he's doing something to prevent others from attaining food or the wealth to buy it.

Think of what our moral world would look like if we could all balance the strength of our desires against those of others. What about rape? If I want sex badly enough, and suffer greatly from the lack of it, is it therefore ethical for me to rape someone? Can I cite my own relief from suffering as a fair trade for the suffering inflicted on an unwilling victim?

No. The calculus of ethical decisions is meant to temper acts of the self so that they don't negatively impact others, not to use one's own more-than-yours suffering to justify doing what is wrong.

(December 14, 2014 at 12:31 pm)Cato Wrote: Assuming the role of someone contemplating suicide and also assuming there is no other alternative to relieve my suffering, why is someone else not suffering more important than me not suffering? Wouldn't empathetic consideration for others only serve to worsen my personal suffering?
There's no sensible ethic that requires one to balance one's own hedonic state against others. If you are willing to suffer so that someone else will not have to, then you are behaving ethically.

Quote:I don't find appeals to the condition of others very convincing when considering suicide, even in cases where its easy to demonstrate a duty of care; e.g., having minor children. Someone seriously considering suicide is probably going to have issues being a caregiver, not to mention the somewhat frequent accounts of children becoming victims in murder-suicides.
None of this makes suicide ethical.

Quote:Far better to help someone with his/her struggles as I'm not sure how receptive that person would be to an ethical argument regarding the merits of suicide, even if it were unethical by consensus.
That's right. But I'm not talking about how best to deal with an actual case of suicide contemplation. I'm talking about whether it is or is not ethical for one to kill oneself. And, by the normal standards of ethical consideration-- i.e. a check to make sure one's actions are not seriously inconvenciencing or harming others-- suicide is clearly unethical.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by LivingNumbers - November 29, 2014 at 8:04 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by The Grand Nudger - November 29, 2014 at 8:08 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Jenny A - November 29, 2014 at 8:08 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Peebo-Thuhlu - November 29, 2014 at 8:09 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - November 29, 2014 at 8:26 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by The Grand Nudger - November 29, 2014 at 8:29 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by vorlon13 - November 29, 2014 at 8:36 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Peebo-Thuhlu - November 29, 2014 at 8:47 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Chad32 - November 29, 2014 at 8:45 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by LivingNumbers - November 29, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by TreeSapNest - December 1, 2014 at 5:41 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by TheRealJoeFish - December 1, 2014 at 5:46 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 1, 2014 at 5:52 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by MysticKnight - December 1, 2014 at 6:23 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Strider - December 4, 2014 at 1:10 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Minimalist - December 4, 2014 at 1:52 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 4, 2014 at 2:03 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by FatAndFaithless - December 4, 2014 at 1:58 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Violet - December 4, 2014 at 9:03 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Ravenshire - December 4, 2014 at 10:10 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 5, 2014 at 4:57 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by ManMachine - December 5, 2014 at 5:16 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 5, 2014 at 5:41 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by ManMachine - December 12, 2014 at 7:19 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by stillagnostic - December 6, 2014 at 1:06 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 12, 2014 at 12:28 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Ryantology - December 12, 2014 at 5:09 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 12, 2014 at 8:32 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 13, 2014 at 6:30 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Ryantology - December 13, 2014 at 7:01 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 13, 2014 at 8:24 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Ryantology - December 14, 2014 at 3:04 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 14, 2014 at 1:10 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 14, 2014 at 8:15 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by FlyingNarwhal - December 14, 2014 at 10:43 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by MysticKnight - December 14, 2014 at 11:33 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by FlyingNarwhal - December 18, 2014 at 9:59 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 18, 2014 at 8:03 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 15, 2014 at 12:11 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 15, 2014 at 11:32 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 15, 2014 at 12:52 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 15, 2014 at 1:09 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 16, 2014 at 12:28 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Ryantology - December 16, 2014 at 3:58 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Thumpalumpacus - December 17, 2014 at 1:28 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 14, 2014 at 1:26 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 14, 2014 at 1:44 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 12, 2014 at 4:36 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 12, 2014 at 4:51 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 12, 2014 at 4:55 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 12, 2014 at 5:12 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by The Grand Nudger - December 12, 2014 at 5:44 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 12, 2014 at 5:53 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by thesummerqueen - December 12, 2014 at 9:33 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Aractus - December 13, 2014 at 7:40 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Chad32 - December 13, 2014 at 9:08 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Aractus - December 13, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Aractus - December 14, 2014 at 8:21 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 13, 2014 at 9:13 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by ManMachine - December 15, 2014 at 6:32 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Minimalist - December 14, 2014 at 1:51 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 14, 2014 at 1:59 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Minimalist - December 14, 2014 at 2:04 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 14, 2014 at 3:19 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Ryantology - December 14, 2014 at 4:07 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 14, 2014 at 8:13 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 14, 2014 at 8:16 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 14, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Chas - December 14, 2014 at 11:49 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Cato - December 14, 2014 at 12:31 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 14, 2014 at 11:50 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 14, 2014 at 12:31 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 14, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by The_greatest_river - December 15, 2014 at 3:21 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Ryantology - December 15, 2014 at 3:44 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by thesummerqueen - December 15, 2014 at 5:46 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 15, 2014 at 6:37 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Faith No More - December 15, 2014 at 3:05 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by comet - December 15, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 16, 2014 at 12:46 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 16, 2014 at 11:02 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 16, 2014 at 3:22 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 16, 2014 at 5:12 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Losty - December 16, 2014 at 5:29 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 16, 2014 at 6:16 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Mudhammam - December 16, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 16, 2014 at 9:29 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Mudhammam - December 16, 2014 at 10:50 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 17, 2014 at 5:19 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by MysticKnight - December 17, 2014 at 12:49 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 17, 2014 at 2:55 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 17, 2014 at 6:25 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 17, 2014 at 8:12 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 17, 2014 at 8:22 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 17, 2014 at 9:36 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Vosur - December 17, 2014 at 3:09 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Thumpalumpacus - December 18, 2014 at 3:10 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 4:21 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 18, 2014 at 5:48 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Thumpalumpacus - December 18, 2014 at 9:59 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by bennyboy - December 19, 2014 at 5:02 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Thumpalumpacus - December 18, 2014 at 4:44 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 5:31 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 6:00 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Thumpalumpacus - December 19, 2014 at 6:07 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by AwakeOSleeper - December 26, 2014 at 2:35 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by Faith No More - December 26, 2014 at 11:28 am
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by fr0d0 - December 26, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Suicide: An Ethical Delimna - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 3:26 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  [Serious] An Argument For Ethical Egoism SenseMaker007 29 5072 June 19, 2019 at 6:30 am
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Is Belief in God ethical? vulcanlogician 28 4175 November 1, 2018 at 4:10 pm
Last Post: vulcanlogician
  Sweet and Ethical Prostitutes AFTT47 27 5801 November 18, 2017 at 6:55 am
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  What will you do? (Ethical dilemma question) ErGingerbreadMandude 91 14690 October 22, 2017 at 5:30 pm
Last Post: Silver
  SUICIDE AND MORALITY Edwardo Piet 24 4825 December 13, 2016 at 5:06 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Suicide ApeNotKillApe 84 15582 December 9, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Is Human Reproduction Un-Ethical? Brometheus 45 9750 April 6, 2015 at 7:22 pm
Last Post: Polaris
  Hume's Guillotine sets up an ethical regress problem Coffee Jesus 8 3461 April 13, 2014 at 9:14 am
Last Post: Coffee Jesus
  are vegetarians more ethical by not eating meat? justin 266 92063 May 23, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Last Post: fr0d0
  The difference between ethical atheism and nihlism is that ethical atheists have more faith jstrodel 104 43914 March 15, 2013 at 8:37 am
Last Post: The Reality Salesman01



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)