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Is free will real?
#10
RE: Is free will real?
(December 15, 2014 at 6:33 am)robvalue Wrote: Me too, I used to be a determinist. I came to that conclusion before doing any research in detail, before even knowing there was a term for what I thought.

I hadn't heard of quantum randomness. I'm not going to even pretend I understand it either. But I trust that it's a well established theory. Putting all my knowledge and logic together at this point leads me to believe that this randomness is all that determines choices. So if you want to call that a choice, then you can say there is free will. Otherwise, we're just observers to the universe fucking with us.

I do always have my suspicions that the term "random" is a placeholder for "we haven't figured out the pattern yet". But I don't know enough about it to possibly put any weight behind this yet.

But as you say, random or no, we're not making choices the way we think we are. I've seen an experiment where someone had to press one of two buttons, and not to decide until the last second which. But brain scans could determine what he was going to press about 6 seconds before he thought he had made the decision. To me, that shows are are being fooled.

How do you make a reasonable connection between quantum randomness and human cognitive functions if, by your own admission, you don't understand it?

MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci

"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
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Messages In This Thread
Is free will real? - by The_greatest_river - December 15, 2014 at 4:15 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Tartarus Sauce - December 15, 2014 at 4:46 am
RE: Is free will real? - by ManMachine - December 15, 2014 at 5:22 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 15, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Anomalocaris - December 15, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 15, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 15, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2014 at 9:40 am
RE: Is free will real? - by ManMachine - December 16, 2014 at 10:58 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 15, 2014 at 5:50 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 15, 2014 at 6:08 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 15, 2014 at 6:23 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Tonus - December 15, 2014 at 6:25 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 15, 2014 at 6:33 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 15, 2014 at 6:36 am
RE: Is free will real? - by ManMachine - December 15, 2014 at 6:38 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 15, 2014 at 6:42 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 15, 2014 at 9:45 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 15, 2014 at 9:57 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 15, 2014 at 10:05 am
RE: Is free will real? - by FatAndFaithless - December 15, 2014 at 10:15 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 15, 2014 at 11:12 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 15, 2014 at 12:55 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 15, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 16, 2014 at 12:01 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Anomalocaris - December 15, 2014 at 1:08 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by comet - December 15, 2014 at 9:09 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 16, 2014 at 12:31 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 16, 2014 at 9:17 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 16, 2014 at 11:29 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2014 at 12:21 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 16, 2014 at 11:33 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 16, 2014 at 12:33 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 16, 2014 at 11:36 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 16, 2014 at 11:48 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 16, 2014 at 11:56 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 16, 2014 at 12:35 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 16, 2014 at 1:14 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 16, 2014 at 12:48 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 16, 2014 at 1:17 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 16, 2014 at 1:19 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2014 at 1:22 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 16, 2014 at 1:28 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2014 at 1:32 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 16, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - December 16, 2014 at 3:54 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 16, 2014 at 4:28 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2014 at 7:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by MysticKnight - December 20, 2014 at 1:24 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 20, 2014 at 1:47 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 20, 2014 at 10:15 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 20, 2014 at 8:37 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 20, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by MysticKnight - December 20, 2014 at 8:18 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 21, 2014 at 1:07 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 21, 2014 at 4:20 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 21, 2014 at 10:34 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 21, 2014 at 10:49 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 20, 2014 at 8:25 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 20, 2014 at 8:59 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 21, 2014 at 10:56 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 21, 2014 at 11:08 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 21, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 21, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 22, 2014 at 5:17 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 29, 2014 at 8:30 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 22, 2014 at 5:56 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 22, 2014 at 6:50 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 22, 2014 at 9:09 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 22, 2014 at 7:57 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 22, 2014 at 8:41 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Zen Badger - December 22, 2014 at 8:01 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 22, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 22, 2014 at 9:18 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 22, 2014 at 6:38 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 22, 2014 at 10:53 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Elskidor - December 22, 2014 at 8:55 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 22, 2014 at 11:06 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 22, 2014 at 8:48 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 22, 2014 at 9:25 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Angrboda - December 22, 2014 at 9:16 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Dystopia - December 22, 2014 at 9:38 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 22, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Brian37 - December 22, 2014 at 10:30 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 22, 2014 at 11:16 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 23, 2014 at 10:06 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 23, 2014 at 12:12 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 23, 2014 at 7:15 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by abaris - December 23, 2014 at 7:23 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 23, 2014 at 9:24 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 24, 2014 at 8:05 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 24, 2014 at 12:43 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 24, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 24, 2014 at 4:43 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 24, 2014 at 7:56 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 24, 2014 at 4:54 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 24, 2014 at 9:21 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 24, 2014 at 10:01 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 25, 2014 at 1:42 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 25, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 25, 2014 at 7:19 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 25, 2014 at 10:23 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 26, 2014 at 4:40 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 26, 2014 at 11:38 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 26, 2014 at 12:28 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 25, 2014 at 9:19 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 25, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 10:04 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 25, 2014 at 11:04 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 25, 2014 at 1:16 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 25, 2014 at 3:27 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 1:15 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 1:30 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 8:54 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 26, 2014 at 12:18 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 26, 2014 at 9:07 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 9:13 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 26, 2014 at 6:20 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 26, 2014 at 7:29 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 7:04 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 26, 2014 at 9:15 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 26, 2014 at 11:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 27, 2014 at 2:57 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 3:44 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 27, 2014 at 4:17 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 3:47 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 27, 2014 at 8:04 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 9:49 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 27, 2014 at 10:28 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 27, 2014 at 10:36 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 28, 2014 at 12:53 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 27, 2014 at 10:58 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 26, 2014 at 10:26 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 27, 2014 at 12:42 am
RE: Is free will real? - by vorlon13 - December 27, 2014 at 1:06 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 27, 2014 at 1:20 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 3:09 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 27, 2014 at 9:44 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 27, 2014 at 7:58 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by A Fisherman - December 27, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Alex K - December 27, 2014 at 11:01 am
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - December 27, 2014 at 1:24 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 27, 2014 at 10:49 am
RE: Is free will real? - by A Fisherman - December 27, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 27, 2014 at 4:51 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 27, 2014 at 4:37 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by vorlon13 - December 27, 2014 at 5:49 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by MysticKnight - December 27, 2014 at 7:43 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 27, 2014 at 8:03 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 27, 2014 at 9:45 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 27, 2014 at 11:31 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 28, 2014 at 9:28 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 28, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 28, 2014 at 2:41 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 28, 2014 at 6:55 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 28, 2014 at 8:03 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Angrboda - December 29, 2014 at 1:27 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 29, 2014 at 2:00 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Angrboda - December 29, 2014 at 5:20 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - January 3, 2015 at 7:30 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - January 3, 2015 at 10:50 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - January 4, 2015 at 1:44 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - January 4, 2015 at 5:27 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - January 5, 2015 at 9:06 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - January 5, 2015 at 9:39 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - January 5, 2015 at 8:13 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 29, 2014 at 4:48 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 29, 2014 at 5:12 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 29, 2014 at 5:23 am
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - December 29, 2014 at 6:54 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - December 29, 2014 at 10:30 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - December 29, 2014 at 7:12 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 29, 2014 at 10:24 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - December 29, 2014 at 12:34 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - December 29, 2014 at 6:45 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Jolnir - January 2, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - January 2, 2015 at 9:18 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - January 2, 2015 at 10:21 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - January 3, 2015 at 12:44 am
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - January 2, 2015 at 10:36 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by IATIA - January 3, 2015 at 9:37 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by h4ym4n - January 4, 2015 at 7:11 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - January 4, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - January 4, 2015 at 3:40 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - January 4, 2015 at 3:47 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - January 4, 2015 at 7:26 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Mudhammam - January 4, 2015 at 7:36 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by bennyboy - January 4, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by tantric - January 4, 2015 at 6:37 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - January 5, 2015 at 9:47 am
RE: Is free will real? - by robvalue - January 5, 2015 at 9:50 am
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 8:19 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - January 5, 2015 at 8:22 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 8:24 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Whateverist - January 5, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: Is free will real? - by Neo-Scholastic - January 6, 2015 at 9:57 am



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