Is free will real?

[bennyboy]

... If the self is an illusion, then all the utility that contributes to the development, sustenance and pleasure of the self is pixie dust.

Yes. And your point is?

It's irrational to act on motivations once you've identified them as pixie dust.

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Predicting human behavior and the utilitarian benefits thereof (transportation, productivity, conflict resolution, etc). But also, finding dinner.

Finding dinner for whom? The illusion of the self?

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I don't avoid any ideas. I just finished reading Theologica Germanica, a 14th century work written by an anonymous Christian mystic. One of the main goals of mysticism is freedom and transformation from what is vulgarly understood as the "self."

We talked about that once upon a time. I was saying that at the border conditions, it's hard to tell the difference between polar opposites: mind vs. matter, for example.

In this case, I think science is kind of arriving at places spiritual traditions reached a long time ago-- and using many of the same philosophical arguments. The difference is that the science provides some evidence that aspects of reality are well-aligned with those philosophical outlooks.

I too think there's much delusion in mundane life, and much liberty and wisdom in deconstruction of the sense of self. However, I think the selective removal of the idea of free will, WITHOUT also removing most of the ideas about self, is pointless.

Free will is as real as the sense of self.