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Atheism, A Grim Position?
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position?
(January 5, 2015 at 8:07 pm)*steve* Wrote: Hello, I'm new to the forum. Full disclosure: I'm currently a non-traditional theist. However, I have considered atheism a few times but it seems to be such a grim position. Let me explain.

As I understand atheism, these would be a few of its tenets:

There is no ultimate meaning. Therefore, all lives and events are ultimately meaningless.

That has nothing to do with whether or not gods exist.

(January 5, 2015 at 8:07 pm)*steve* Wrote: There is no ultimate basis for value. Therefore any moral position is ultimately arbitrary and logically, equally defensible. This means that things like genocide, pedophilia, torture, etc. are equally defensible to any other moral position.

That has nothing to do with whether or not gods exist. But even if gods did exist, and we took our morals from them, those morals would still be relative and subjective.

(January 5, 2015 at 8:07 pm)*steve* Wrote: There is no ultimate intentionality associated with/in reality. Therefore, all events, actions, thoughts and behaviors are determined by chance and necessity. Thus, an individual's thoughts and actions are determined solely by prior causal events and chance.

I'm not sure where I sit on free will vs determinism, but with some definitions of god(s), the plans they are alleged to have preclude free will and human intentionality.

(January 5, 2015 at 8:07 pm)*steve* Wrote: At least for me, if I take these atheist positions to their logical conclusion this all seems psychologically pretty grim.

I'd suggest that you haven't really questioned your premises and their validity.

Reply



Messages In This Thread
Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 8:07 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 8:10 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 8:10 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by rexbeccarox - January 5, 2015 at 8:14 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Chad32 - January 5, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mister Agenda - January 6, 2015 at 3:15 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Strider - January 5, 2015 at 8:24 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JesusHChrist - January 5, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Minimalist - January 5, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Whateverist - January 5, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Minimalist - January 5, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - January 5, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JesusHChrist - January 5, 2015 at 8:32 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Chad32 - January 5, 2015 at 9:06 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 9:57 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cyberman - January 5, 2015 at 9:06 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by bennyboy - January 5, 2015 at 9:06 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 9:45 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Forsaken - January 5, 2015 at 10:40 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by ManMachine - January 5, 2015 at 10:12 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cato - January 5, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Jenny A - January 5, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 10:30 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Jenny A - January 5, 2015 at 10:31 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Forsaken - January 5, 2015 at 10:33 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 10:42 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 5, 2015 at 10:48 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 11:28 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 5, 2015 at 11:43 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:12 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 12:23 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:29 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 12:34 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mister Agenda - January 6, 2015 at 3:54 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 5:21 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by rexbeccarox - January 5, 2015 at 11:33 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Forsaken - January 5, 2015 at 10:52 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 12:07 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:26 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cato - January 6, 2015 at 7:40 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 5, 2015 at 10:36 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 10:57 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 11:04 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 5, 2015 at 11:09 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 5, 2015 at 11:45 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 6, 2015 at 11:38 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:42 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 1:04 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cato - January 6, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by IATIA - January 6, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 6, 2015 at 1:36 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 2:16 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 6, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mister Agenda - January 6, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Forsaken - January 5, 2015 at 11:23 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Whateverist - January 6, 2015 at 3:12 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 11:20 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cyberman - January 5, 2015 at 11:49 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 12:17 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:35 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 12:28 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:31 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 12:29 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 12:39 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 12:41 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:51 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by rexbeccarox - January 6, 2015 at 12:54 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 12:51 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 1:36 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Surgenator - January 6, 2015 at 2:30 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 3:04 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mudhammam - January 6, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Surgenator - January 6, 2015 at 3:17 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by rexbeccarox - January 6, 2015 at 2:32 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 2:46 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by rexbeccarox - January 6, 2015 at 2:55 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cyberman - January 6, 2015 at 3:42 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Jenny A - January 6, 2015 at 2:55 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by bennyboy - January 6, 2015 at 9:11 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 9:16 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Surgenator - January 6, 2015 at 2:49 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 12:22 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 1:52 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by IATIA - January 6, 2015 at 4:45 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 5:10 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Exian - January 6, 2015 at 4:14 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Fidel_Castronaut - January 6, 2015 at 4:30 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 4:32 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 4:30 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Fidel_Castronaut - January 6, 2015 at 4:35 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cyberman - January 6, 2015 at 9:14 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by FatAndFaithless - January 6, 2015 at 9:15 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cato - January 6, 2015 at 9:24 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Whateverist - January 6, 2015 at 9:26 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Exian - January 6, 2015 at 9:27 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Brian37 - January 6, 2015 at 9:28 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 10:53 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cyberman - January 6, 2015 at 9:29 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Whateverist - January 6, 2015 at 9:32 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Exian - January 6, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by FatAndFaithless - January 6, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mudhammam - January 6, 2015 at 9:49 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by LastPoet - January 6, 2015 at 9:51 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by c172 - January 6, 2015 at 10:22 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 10:41 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 10:54 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 11:10 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 11:57 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 12:07 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 12:14 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 12:22 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by FatAndFaithless - January 6, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 11:04 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mudhammam - January 6, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Whateverist - January 6, 2015 at 12:22 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by FatAndFaithless - January 6, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 11:20 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by FatAndFaithless - January 6, 2015 at 11:25 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 11:39 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by FatAndFaithless - January 6, 2015 at 11:09 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 11:20 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 11:24 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by IATIA - January 6, 2015 at 11:22 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 12:50 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 1:57 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cato - January 6, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 2:07 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 2:35 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 2:44 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mudhammam - January 6, 2015 at 2:47 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by *steve* - January 6, 2015 at 3:05 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by FatAndFaithless - January 6, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 3:08 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 6, 2015 at 3:10 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mister Agenda - January 6, 2015 at 3:11 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mudhammam - January 6, 2015 at 3:11 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cyberman - January 6, 2015 at 7:04 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 3:12 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 3:40 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cato - January 6, 2015 at 3:53 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 6, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Cato - January 6, 2015 at 4:33 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mister Agenda - January 6, 2015 at 4:36 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 4:36 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Esquilax - January 6, 2015 at 4:47 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Jackalope - January 6, 2015 at 4:53 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Whateverist - January 6, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by abaris - January 6, 2015 at 8:30 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JesusHChrist - January 6, 2015 at 8:38 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 10:07 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by ManMachine - January 6, 2015 at 10:09 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by MitchBenn - January 6, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by JesusHChrist - January 6, 2015 at 10:43 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Pizza - January 20, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Mudhammam - January 20, 2015 at 3:29 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Pizza - January 21, 2015 at 2:48 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by Regina - January 20, 2015 at 3:45 pm
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by wiploc - January 24, 2015 at 2:01 am
RE: Atheism, A Grim Position? - by IATIA - January 24, 2015 at 5:05 am

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