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Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God
(January 6, 2015 at 11:49 am)Rhythm Wrote: Seems like alot of fanfic in that post Orange. The ot jews saw god, full stop. The ot jews did not see god, full stop. There's no requirement of consistency because these are just narratives - not news reports from the front. Your extraneous jerrying with the narrative is an effect of your extraneous beliefs, not a problem with the narratives. They were not written with each other (or your beliefs) in mind.
The purpose of the post was to qualify who specifically is the God that people saw. Given that people saw Jesus (who is God) face to face and yet didn't believe in Him, it cannot be logically concluded that seeing God necessitates belief.
(January 6, 2015 at 3:57 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:



So as to not hijack the thread into a discussion about election and predestination I'll retract my above statement for the sake of this argument. I'll rely on my counterargument to premise #2 of the OP's argument (Given that people saw Jesus (who is God) face to face and yet didn't believe in Him, it cannot be logically concluded that seeing God necessitates belief).

If you are interested in having further discussion about election and predestination I would be happy to join you in a thread devoted to them.

If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?



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Messages In This Thread
Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 2, 2015 at 11:25 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by robvalue - January 2, 2015 at 11:28 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 2, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 3:48 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 3, 2015 at 1:21 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 3, 2015 at 2:48 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by IATIA - January 3, 2015 at 2:32 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 3, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 3, 2015 at 2:41 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 3, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 3:02 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Simon Moon - January 3, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 3, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by IATIA - January 3, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 3, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 3, 2015 at 5:04 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 7:51 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 3, 2015 at 7:55 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 8:09 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Simon Moon - January 3, 2015 at 5:02 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 3, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 7:43 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 3, 2015 at 7:48 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by IATIA - January 3, 2015 at 4:37 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by h4ym4n - January 3, 2015 at 5:34 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 3, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Silver - January 3, 2015 at 8:04 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by h4ym4n - January 4, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 3, 2015 at 8:47 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Whateverist - January 3, 2015 at 2:07 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 3, 2015 at 2:22 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by robvalue - January 3, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by IATIA - January 3, 2015 at 2:44 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Simon Moon - January 3, 2015 at 2:49 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Natachan - January 3, 2015 at 7:21 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 4, 2015 at 3:10 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 4, 2015 at 3:23 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 4, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by h4ym4n - January 5, 2015 at 6:55 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 4:07 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 4:26 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Minimalist - January 4, 2015 at 11:46 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 4, 2015 at 11:50 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 12:03 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by robvalue - January 5, 2015 at 12:12 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 1:06 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Minimalist - January 5, 2015 at 1:10 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by LastPoet - January 5, 2015 at 7:33 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Whateverist - January 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 5, 2015 at 10:25 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 4:17 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 4:20 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by robvalue - January 5, 2015 at 12:27 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 12:32 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 12:43 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 4:37 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 4:41 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 4:44 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 5:08 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 5:16 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by h4ym4n - January 5, 2015 at 5:10 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 5:29 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 5:32 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 5:34 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 5:39 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by h4ym4n - January 5, 2015 at 5:36 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 11:45 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Whateverist - January 6, 2015 at 3:29 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by FatAndFaithless - January 5, 2015 at 12:41 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by The Grand Nudger - January 5, 2015 at 12:56 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 4:29 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 4:44 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 5:03 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Drich - January 5, 2015 at 5:21 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 5:47 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by h4ym4n - January 5, 2015 at 5:50 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 5:52 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Cyberman - January 5, 2015 at 6:11 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 6:28 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Cyberman - January 5, 2015 at 6:36 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 5, 2015 at 6:53 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 6, 2015 at 12:18 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 12:22 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 6, 2015 at 12:24 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by orangebox21 - January 6, 2015 at 1:11 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by IATIA - January 6, 2015 at 11:00 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 6, 2015 at 11:05 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by orangebox21 - January 6, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Cyberman - January 6, 2015 at 12:06 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by orangebox21 - January 6, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by The Grand Nudger - January 6, 2015 at 11:49 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by IATIA - January 6, 2015 at 2:57 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by orangebox21 - January 7, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Nope - January 7, 2015 at 4:51 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Neo-Scholastic - January 7, 2015 at 5:20 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by orangebox21 - January 12, 2015 at 2:29 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by KevinM1 - January 6, 2015 at 1:16 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by dyresand - January 6, 2015 at 1:19 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by KevinM1 - January 6, 2015 at 1:30 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by robvalue - January 6, 2015 at 2:58 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Neo-Scholastic - January 6, 2015 at 3:57 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by robvalue - January 7, 2015 at 1:42 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by orangebox21 - January 7, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by The Grand Nudger - January 12, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by robvalue - January 13, 2015 at 2:50 am
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by orangebox21 - January 26, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by The Grand Nudger - January 26, 2015 at 4:57 pm
RE: Free Will and Loving/Rejecting God - by Cyberman - January 26, 2015 at 9:38 pm

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