If

[Little Rik]

Your comment does not answer my point.
I point how to you that many of these NDEs experiences tell about things that they have seen during their NDEs.

Unfounded claim 1: NDEs occur when the people are brain dead.
Unfounded claim 2: NDEs didn't occur when the person was going or coming out of brain death.
Unfounded claim 3: True NDEs require the person to be dead.
Unfounded claim 4: What the NDEs experience actually exist and not trickery/illusions.

Your big problem is that you still believe that the consciousness can not become a witness entity as soon as the brain is off or dead and therefore everything that is perceived during these NDEs are only hallucinations maybe coming from a brain that is not off or dead yet.
Keep on sticking with the Sacks of this material world.
Maybe one day you may get somewhere but i guess not very far in your search for the truth. Good luck to you.

Now, forget for a moment about having seen God and focus about having seen more material-physical things.
Once back to life they describe these things like what was inside a room next to the emergency room where they were or a nurse that did something wrong like dropping a baby which got hurt and need surgery.
This clearly prove that the brain was off and something else that they describe like consciousness was the witness entity.

FYI. When you are going to have surgery, the doctors don't kill you, perform the surgery, and then revive you.

What this has got to do with my point only God knows.

Great, people can describe a room that they are physically in. But they just can't see the number above the operating table that is out of view from all the doctors and nurses. It's like they are getting the same information as everyone else there and nothing beyond.

It is all about what is important and what it is not.
As your father would teach you or show you what really matter at the same time he wouldn't be interested to show you or give you what it is not important or bad for you.
Is to allow you to see and remember a number would be on any help to you or to those idiots who bet on whether you will see it or not?
As i see God is not in this stupid business.
At the same time in certain circumstances he may allow some individual to see things that will help someone in trouble or other individual to understand that the real McCoy is well outside the power of the brain.

Some had very terrible experiences. The christians saw jesus, the hindus see shiva, the jews see moses or god. It like what they experience is culturally based.

How can you say that these experiences are terrible?
As i said in previous post my understanding is that God will let you believe whatever you like.
For a Christian he may dress or better say be perceived like Jesus and for everybody else he will be perceived in whatever figure they like most.
This however has nothing to do with bad or terrible.
You get what you deserve so the figure has absolutely nothing to do with a bad feeling.

If according to you these NDEs are some sort of hallucination why then these people have seen the same sort of things?
Why only God?
Why not a mix of God, the devil, father Christmas and Nembo Kid?

Those type of testinomials exist, you just don't want to read them. I wonder why.

And you have the evidence that what you are talking really relate to a real NDE and not to an hallucination?
I have seen people coming out an LSD trip telling me about having been in the outer space and having ride on top of an angel.

Also, all the people that "died" and were revived by doctors but didn't have an NDE, do they prove that there isn't anything beyond? This crowd is a lot bigger.

I believe that an NDE is given to someone in order to learn something.
Not everybody is ready to learn.
Some people are not.
I know one in particular but i want tell you his name.


By the way, there is an interesting article about your "friend" Mr Shermer written by Pim van Lommel.


http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/Research/vonl...sponse.htm

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I point how to you that many of these NDEs experiences tell about things that they have seen during their NDEs.
Now, forget for a moment about having seen God and focus about having seen more material-physical things.
Once back to life they describe these things like what was inside a room next to the emergency room where they were or a nurse that did something wrong like dropping a baby which got hurt and need surgery.
This clearly prove that the brain was off and something else that they describe like consciousness was the witness entity.

Sources and references?

I can't read all the experiences for you.
I just haven't got the time.
You read for yourself if you like.




http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/...s_main.htm