(January 13, 2015 at 2:45 pm)Godschild Wrote:(January 13, 2015 at 8:44 am)Tonus Wrote: As I said above, I take the claims at face value. If a person claims to be Christian and then denies Christ or the Bible, then I figure he's more of a nut than a Christian, but if he professes to follow both then I just go along. The most important thing, to me, is what he believes and why he believes. We have had people here who denied being Christian yet used only the Bible as their source of teaching. Since I do not expect that every person here will make sense, I just shrug my shoulders and move on.
But you do understand that I do not recognize the authority of any individual or church to say who is or is not a Christian, yes? The Bible is too open to interpretation to say that one specific view or the other is the recognizably "true" version. I don't believe in your god or his existence, and I believe that the Bible is just a book of ancient writings cobbled together by men with an agenda that was more political than religious. Thus I don't have any stake in which interpretation is true and which person is following it to the letter. That's for Christians, true or not, to hash out among themselves.
Actually there's no both to it, the Bible is an instruction book for Christian living and a history of why we need Christ. The Gospels tell us about our Christ and the rest of the NT is about the way we are to live as Christians and how we can tell if there's fruit on the tree.
You're right it's the business of the Christian church to determine who may be or may not be a Christian. When we refer to a person being a "true" Christian it is their basic belief we are concerned with not their denominational beliefs, all denominations that are Christian have the same basic belief, period.
GC
(January 13, 2015 at 2:18 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Not to us, GC. Someone sacrificing themselves in defense of Hogwarts is just as ridiculous as sacrificing themselves for God.
Harry Potter is just newer....and far better written.
As usual you missed the crux of what I said.
(January 13, 2015 at 9:41 am)robvalue Wrote: Yes, to us saying you are christian means nothing. You are describing a self delusion. Why should we care how people describe delusions? You expect us to demand consistent labelling of an entirely irrational and fictional idea?
You think we believe atheist have deluded themselves, yes we do, you've bought into the lie Satan sold Adam and Eve. You criticize us for believing in something we can't see, yet you can't see you bought into something you can't see and you do not even realize you have.
GC
An instruction book? Which part? The part that tells you how to treat slaves? Or the part that tells you to to marry off your daughter to a rapist? Or the acts of genocide?
You have the same problem Muslims do with the Koran. To be civil you really have to ignore the nasty parts of these books. That is the part moderates and liberals of both religions don't want to face. The violent ones get their ideas of morality from the exact same books you do. Difference is they take it word for word. Your human empathy, not the book, is what allows you to skip over the nasty parts and ignore them.
Our species was around long before either of these religions were invented, and even before the Hebrews which stem from polytheism. Our species has always had the ability to be cruel our compassionate. When we do good, that is coming from the empathy and caring side of our evolution. It is not coming from old books of myth.
