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I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism...
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism...
Thanks, but I learned how to breathe, properly, in choir. No buddhism required.

(January 15, 2015 at 12:15 am)tantric Wrote: It's an ideological construct. And a person who existed in the past. Do you understand non-dualism, philosophically?
It's one, sure. I doubt it's the other, or that anyone is or ever has been capable of doing what you claim "buddhas" are capable of doing.

Quote:Buddhistically speaking, that's fine and even appropriate. We don't care at all what label you accept. The guide here is the phrase "Ahimsa paramo dharma" - if the path you follow leads you to non-violence and co-existence, it's not broken and doesn't need to be fixed.
I am my countries strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight. Wherever, whenever. My path didn't lead me to non-violence, but it still isn't broken, and it still doesn't need fixing.

Quote:OTOH, if you are not seeking spiritual peace and a meaningful life, why do you care about those of us who do, so long as we "Ahimsa paramo dharma"?
Because I also don't care about your normative dictates, understand? Also, doesn't seem to be working, does it? Que Sri Lanka. I think that the spotty record of buddhism in this non-violence bit is entirely understandble given it;s shoddy foundation of woo. I actually -expect- woo to fail, so it doesn't surprise me when it does.



Quote:What you're saying here isn't really clear - elucidate?
It was pretty clear, but I'll repeat. Buddhism is ineffective, and woo based. There is very little in buddhism that I would even consider marginally worthwhile, and all of it can be sourced elsewhere, without the woo, and to better effect. When confronted with buddhists doing all of the things that buddhists do that you don't like, you tried a TQ, but it doesn't apply to me, or to atheism. Atheism, firstly, is not informative. Nothing comes from it. It's just a statement regarding the status of belief. Atheism doesn't lead to anyone killing priests, beliefs about the shittiness of priests lead to killing priests (maybe). Buddhism, however, apparently leads to a little more than your life of non-violence, que Sri Lanka. But even if buddhists weren't fucking it up (and hadn't been fucking it up for 2k years.......), you'd still be wooing it up...and to a humanist, that's fucking it up. If you ever a find a group of humanists(which -is- the informative portion of my outlook) fucking things up like your buddhist buddies are fucking things up, pointing to their humanist principles, you go right ahead and tell me, k? If I met Buddha, I would not become a buddhist. If I met jesus, I would not become a christian. If I met Allah, I would not become a muslim. That I don't believe any of your stories isn't what prevents me from joining your cults.

I have an ethical objection to all of your faiths. I consider them all to be social and cultural gaslighting -at their very best-...and much more at their worst.

Quote:At this point I'm not clear on what you mean by 'magic'. If everyone on Earth believe in some fable that led them to be kind and good, would that be magic? We're not doing that - though we do have a POV that encourages compassion which results from a non-dualistic understanding of self. I don't see that this requires magic.
No, that would be business as usual, human beings have a demonstrable habit of believing in magical things. Many people do believe in those "fables" -and even though each one makes some claim to kindness, goodness or morality, none of them seem to be able to make good on that claim. Buddhism included. You'd like to downplay the magic and focus on the compassion, but since the compassion is based, ultimately, on magic, I expect it to fail - and that's what it's done. Perhaps if someone offered reasonable, demonstrable, and non magical reasons and explanations for compassion we'd exercize it a little more, but so long as the woosters of the world are out there talking "karma" and "spirit" - I don't see that happening. Certainly hasn't happened yet...and like you said...you've had a few thousand years......

Quote:Okay - when most people have their basic physical needs satisfied, they do not become happy and content. We see that some people, but not very many, have joy in their lives. They are content. Siddhartha saw this in monks and religious people, that they get some kind of psychological benefit from their beliefs.
-a faustian bargain, in my estimation. I think that joy and contentedness can be arrived at without making a deal with the devil.

Quote:Some of them become truly good people, kind to others, self-sacrificings, yet filled with joy and contentment. He wanted to know how this works, and what he found was that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the gods they worship or the rituals they practice. His stated goal and purpose was find out how these people attain this state of mind without the woo.
Then how did so much woo find it's way into buddhism? Accident? Incompetence? Some "Buddha"....

Quote: I should think that atheistically, that is admirable?
Atheistically nothing, its a single line comment on the status of belief in gods. Your "enlightenment" is showing.

Quote:Part of his analysis of the human condition was to separate joy and pleasure. In neurochemistry, these are responses to serotonin (joy) and dopamine (pleasure). We get pleasure from getting things, like winning, or eating a big meal, etc, but pleasure is inherently addictive. After we feel it, it's gone and leaves a need for more, in an endless cycle. This is 'attachment'. Most people struggle with attachment and desire for material things, but there is also attachment to ideas and the sense of self. The point is, this pursuit doesn't lead to that contentment and joy, in fact, it obscures it.
So sayeth the woosters. I seem to be doing fine. Again, I'm a humanist, I place human matters on the pedestal. You;re already painting a picture of distancing oneself from being a human being as a path to success - and since this advice is being given to human beings..I find any notion of it's success unlikely to the highest degree. It would be like telling a dog that the way to fix some "broken" part of themselves (see...we already have to tell people that what they are is broken, right off the bat) is to simply not be a dog. Good luck for Fido, good luck for John Q. Meanwhile.........

....I seem to be doing fine.

Quote: Joy comes from being a good person and living a good life. When you remember joy, you feel it again, when you remember pleasure, you feel the lack.
Yeah, a "good" person and a "good" life as the buddhist busybody sees it -based on woo-, ignoring that "evil" is very often rewarded and those "evil" people manage to lead hilariously joyful and happy lives. So much so that the happy dictator/crook/douche has become a commentary on social truisms.

Quote:Mindfulness is about keeping to a philosophical definition of reality that avoids both objectivism and subjectivism. In the system I use, a moment of reality is composed of the perception of an objectively existing but unknowable reality.
Uninterested. If reality is unknowable then you are a know-nothing, and I have no use for you or anything you have to say. You aren't going to hold to that, though, are you? You're going to tell me alllll about "what you know" - in fact, you have been. Gaslighter.

Quote: It requires both a perceiver and an object, even though the true nature of that object can't be known except through the filter of perception. Most of my 'reality' is constructed in my head by my conditioned and learned responses to perceptions - but there is still stuff outside my head. Whenever I try to analyze that reality, ultimately I come to either nonsense or paradox, because that reality is 'transparent to analysis'. It's nature is emptiness. You will probably call that woo, but most quantum physicists agree.
Watch out, he said "quantum"! Run for the hills! I'll let you in on another truism of mine. The moment people start to talk about "quantum" this or thats in defense of their silly bullshit, as though it has some relevance in our day to day lives.... that's the final nail in the coffin. Take it up with Ramtha.

Quote:Well, part of that is true.
Thanks for cluing me in on the truth, know-nothing. Angel

Quote:Becoming Buddhist for me was similar to how some people realize they are gay - I was taking a class on the subject, and during a lecture on philosophy, I realized what was being described was my native way of thinking. I was surprised in that I'd assume I was alone and very pleased to find out there were extensions I hadn't thought of before, but that logically followed. I experience my first moment of satori in 11th grade chem class while contemplating the sentence "There are no absolutes". You are very entitled to your opinions - my only goal is to help you to understand that in principle many modern and especially Western Buddhists are on your side in the goal of making life better for people and getting rid of irrational and damaging beliefs.
The problem, is that the method you wish to use is precisely what I am opposed to. Imagine if I offered to help you bring about peace and non-violence by shooting people (which I would, and have done). You;d spot the problem right away, right? However, because you have your buddhist blinders on you can't even conceptualize a way in which your faith system doesn't grok with my goals (or even your own, potentially), even though it's as obvious as my offer to kill people until a non-violent humanity is realized. This (among other things) is precisely why I have an ethical objection to your silly religion. I bet you're a smart person, I'd be willing to wager that you can see through a sales pitch more often than you fall for them...and then - skidouche- buddhism....and all of a sudden your day to day ability to separate woo from reality vanishes. Now, in your case, -and to your credit, you seem to be bending the reed as far as it will go. Trying to make buddhism seem less magical to you. Once you've finished doing that, though, you'll be left with a philosophy you could've sourced any number of other less magical places. You would have saved yourself time and trouble. That's all I'm doing, saving myself the time and trouble and calling buddhism precisely what it is.

@Rob. LOL< I know right? Trouble is, people rarely wash their hands as thoroughly as they ought to. Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Messages In This Thread
I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dscross - February 6, 2014 at 6:31 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by FreeTony - February 6, 2014 at 6:40 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Nine - February 6, 2014 at 6:41 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dscross - February 6, 2014 at 6:43 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Nine - February 6, 2014 at 6:44 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dscross - February 6, 2014 at 6:48 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dscross - February 6, 2014 at 6:58 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by KUSA - February 6, 2014 at 6:53 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Angrboda - February 6, 2014 at 6:55 pm
I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Rampant.A.I. - February 6, 2014 at 7:19 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by sven - April 23, 2014 at 11:24 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by TaraJo - October 2, 2014 at 10:40 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by roaster - December 17, 2014 at 4:17 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by roaster - December 18, 2014 at 1:42 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by roaster - December 21, 2014 at 3:21 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by roaster - December 21, 2014 at 6:31 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Nope - December 18, 2014 at 8:50 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dyresand - December 19, 2014 at 11:24 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by psychoslice - December 19, 2014 at 11:34 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Whateverist - December 19, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dyresand - December 19, 2014 at 12:20 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Mudhammam - December 20, 2014 at 1:20 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Whateverist - December 20, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Mudhammam - December 20, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Whateverist - December 20, 2014 at 11:24 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Mudhammam - December 20, 2014 at 4:18 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Elskidor - December 20, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by psychoslice - December 23, 2014 at 10:57 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Elskidor - December 25, 2014 at 10:28 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by psychoslice - December 25, 2014 at 10:48 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by simplemoss - December 23, 2014 at 11:55 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by psychoslice - December 25, 2014 at 10:15 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dyresand - December 24, 2014 at 1:02 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by robvalue - December 25, 2014 at 1:34 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by abaris - December 26, 2014 at 6:04 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Elskidor - December 25, 2014 at 11:16 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - December 27, 2014 at 12:10 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by fr0d0 - December 28, 2014 at 4:09 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Alex K - December 27, 2014 at 1:51 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - December 27, 2014 at 2:25 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Alex K - December 27, 2014 at 5:23 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - December 27, 2014 at 6:07 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by psychoslice - December 27, 2014 at 10:45 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - December 30, 2014 at 4:40 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by JuliaL - December 30, 2014 at 6:46 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dyresand - January 9, 2015 at 11:42 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dyresand - January 10, 2015 at 12:31 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dyresand - January 10, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by dyresand - January 11, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 12, 2015 at 1:56 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 12, 2015 at 2:29 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 15, 2015 at 12:15 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by Angrboda - January 15, 2015 at 12:35 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 15, 2015 at 2:09 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 15, 2015 at 9:56 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by robvalue - January 15, 2015 at 10:32 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by The Grand Nudger - January 15, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 15, 2015 at 12:21 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 15, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 15, 2015 at 10:48 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 16, 2015 at 2:43 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by robvalue - January 16, 2015 at 2:53 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 16, 2015 at 9:33 am
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by tantric - January 17, 2015 at 1:52 pm
RE: I'm an atheist but I quite like Buddism... - by robvalue - January 16, 2015 at 10:39 am



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