Why rise again ??

[Peter44]

From my perspective Jesus' sacrifice was in his knowingly and willfully suffering for our atonement, not in his shuffling of the mortal coil which is just a part of nature anyways. The reason why he did it is because he said he would, which would be considered a prophecy and then fufillment. This would of course add to the meaningfullness of the event rather than detract from it.

-PS feel free to ask anytime, better to ask hear and get pats on the back from your fellows then get booted by some self-righteous pricks [/generalizations]

Well I accept at least he had the choice and chose to do it even though its had no effect whatsoever over the last 2000 years quite the opposite in fact which of course must support the theory that his suffering (if he did suffer and its not clear he did).
As you accept his choice, you must also accept that his suffering wasnt anyway near as bad as that suffered by millions of humans during the progress of evolution.

In that way humanity has paid its own price (if suffering is the measure of it). We never needed Jesus we had all suffered enough.
However I fail to see how his dying on a cross did any good at all even if man's humanity is the product of suffering due to evolution.

Thanks for the offer. In fact I like getting booted by self-rightous pricks !!I have already made my mind up to try some questions on a Christian forum. i did try once but the banned me.

Nice to know we have a few tame ones on this board.

---

It is confusing I must admit. Tackattack has given a pretty good account of my understanding. I think the difference is he can get his head round it and I can't (like you). Firstly i think the premise is wrong that we have anything to answer to god for. If god made us in his own image then we act as he does. I don't consider myself a guilty, unworthy, sinful, wretched human in need of saving. I didn't ask Jesus to attone for my sins and I don't want it. Secondly if Jesus was god he knew he'd be resurrected and therefore his sacrifice was hardly very great. Thirdly why sacrifice yourself to yourself? Fouthly assuming there was a historical Jesus who was crucified. It was probably for sedition against the roman empire And his followers could only rationalise that their leader wasn't saved by god by starting a mythology (denial and all that) ; wild speculation I know but no less so than a resurrection. Fifthly where did he go. We are told he bodily ascended to heaven, but heaven is necessarily an immaterial realm to accomodate god. I am now boring myself as well as the reader......

You have made some of the points I was trying to make clearer particularly the issue of supposed sacrifice. I fully understand the issue of sin too its another issue.
If God made us and gave us the physiology and the neurophysiology and the hormonal system etc. He only has himself to blame if we end up using them. After all he has them too (as we were made like him) so he also needs to be aggressive needs to make social progress needs sex etc etc.
I certainly dint agree with Takattack's suggestion that Jesus suffered by being sacrificed or that self sacrifice when you know your not going top die is any way as bad as suffering suffered by those who are torchered to death or those that have died in their millions due to slow lingering starvation or volcanoes or climate change ice ages disease etc.

My first wife died of cancer. Her death took nearly two years and she knew it was coming. She knew she wouldn't rise again. She knew she would loose all those she loved never see her family or children again and never know what happens to them she knew she was leaving her grandchildren without her support These things hurt her more than the pain she told me and believe me that was bad enough.
She was mutilated, radiated and poisoned. Every month brought a new way of making her ill but prolonging her life.

She lost her dignity as the cancer made her lose her ability to use the toilet she was constantly sick. It grew inside her until she had to be almost permanently sedated.

She wanted to see us all that much some days she refused to take medication for the pain because
she knew those days were all she would have left. She suffered we suffered.

If I was given the choice of dying like her or being crucified I would choose crucifixion especially if it didn't mean death after all. I am sure most of us would.

Jesus (if he existed) had it easy. No doubt about that.
A comment on your wid specualtion as I am sure you know its not so wild.
I preffer the evidence that supports the fact that the actual followers of Jesus lost the plot after his death and the whole ball game was taken over by Paul who really decided the religion had to be focused on the Romans not the Jews who then took all the blame. Nothing could be less boring that such an involved plot to take over the world.hock: