Two babies discussion.

[Mister Agenda]

Nobody "knows" anything. We think we know because we can experience it with our senses and others can experience it as well. It may be something totally other than what we have determined it to be, but we don't know that because our physical senses are limited.

How do you get from that to 'you're close-minded if you don't take someone's word for how things really are'?

We do have the ability to reason about things and develop beliefs based on that reasoning. I have reasoned because of statments in my last post that something exists beyond the natural world - therefore the supernatural. I don't "know " this, but I believe it,
and I live my life as if it is true.

It's your business whether you believe it. If you claim it's by reason and don't show your work, we're entitled to dismiss your claim out of hand, and we should.

Also, because of what I stated in the last post, I believe that the universe was created from something supernatural.

You definitely should not believe that if it's based on your last post.

I have read the bible, which was written over a period of centuries by numerous authors, who carried on the story of a coming messiah who would save us from the evil world in which we exist.

None of whom we have reason to trust that they were able to know what they claimed to know.

I know about no other religion that exists or has existed that the same amount of continuing revelation.

Same amount of claimed revelation.

Lastly, I myself have always been interested as much in the "whys" as in the "hows".

Ah, a fan of putting the cart before the horse.

I firmly believe that there is reason for our existence and the existence of the cosmos.

I like carrot cake.

Science doesn't answer that question and leaves me deeply unsatisfied.

So you buy into a made-up answer that you find satisfying. How admirable of you. No wonder you're so proud of it.

I'm not content to believe that we are just born for no reason and die and that's it.

And if you're not content with it, it must not be true, eh?

I do care about the reason why we exist in this sometimes happy and sometimes happy world. One thing I "know" is that no one is always happy and content.

Why should they be so?

We can't verify what I know until we die.

That's one of the things that should tip you off that what you're saying you 'know' isn't actually knowledge.

I sense God being with me, but I also can't prove that till later also. Based on my prior statements I believe that's reasonable, and that's what I'm going with.

Maybe you shouldn't believe things based on your own statements.

Just like you guys say - "we don't know now, but I'm confident that someday it will be proven."

Our confidence level is irrelevant, and whether 'it' is never proven doesn't change much. Might shut a few people on your side who act like they know the opposite is true up.

I do have one consolation that you don't have, though, and that is that you'll never be able to say "I told you so" if you're right, but I will.

To each their own. It seems consistent with someone who doesn't actually care what the truth really is to find that a consolation.

Otherwise we're all don't exist anymore, so who cares?

Um, you ARE aware that other people continue to exist after you die, right?

There could be some great scientific discovery that could change my outlook, but I'm definitely not changing now.

Believe me, in your present state, we wouldn't want you agreeing with us. I often regret that I have no control over who gets to be an atheist.

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My only argument you attacked directly so far is my "told you so" argument, as if I didn't say anything else. I just gave you that one so that you'd have something to respond to and wouldn't feel so bad.

Sure you did.